Karma for teams

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Grumbler
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Karma for teams

Post by Grumbler »

Has the group ever considered adding a karma factor to teams?


So that if a team is "unpleasant", they get a bad karma, which gets subtracted from the amount of points they won, or added to the winning team if they get beat.


So if you lose to a team with a bad karma value of 100, and there are a total of 300 points awarded for a win, then the bad karma team only wins 200 points until they can correct their karma.


Similarly, if you beat a team with a bad karma value of 102, and there are a total of 300 points for a win, then the winning team gets 300 points plus an additional 102 for having to put up with the "unpleasant" behavior.


If a team reaches 300 bad karma points, they are removed from the league.

After every match, the opposing team "fairly" applies a good/neutral/bad karma value, that then turns into +/- 50 points for karma.

oh well, just trying to help. :)
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Post by menotume »

Thanks, Grumbler. This seems like a good idea that should be discussed. It could be difficult to get teams to be 'fair' about this. A team with bad karma may become vengeful and vote negative to their opponents.

Perhaps it could be left to a commitee, or the entire league to vote/assign karmas to teams on a periodic basis. Or, a referee could participate during matches - would be nice if the ref could 'see' private messages.

I really like the general idea, but how to implement it could be difficult.
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Post by Death Barrel »

so who will hand out this karma?
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Post by JeffM »

"trusted" people can give authroitve karma in the last verison I saw. Anyone can give out karma, but it's not applied unless your level of trust is high enough.

Basilcly it shows how well you play with the others. If trusted people give you good karma you become more trusted.
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Post by EvilChickenNugget »

Any idea when the regular player karma system will be implemented Patlabor? I think it would also be an interesting feature on the server side, to where you can set a karma threshold, and any player with a karma value above the threshold is awarded admin privileges. Of course whether or not to use the feature would be specified by the server owner.
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Post by JeffM »

it has been talked about much, It's Tim's baby and geting info outa him is "fun". It's suposed to be in 1.12 I guess.

I don't realy think it will solve squat, but make it a pain to login.
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Post by EvilChickenNugget »

I think that if it is implemented properly it could have its uses. It won't solve all the problems, but hopefully should be a good start towards a better bzexperience.
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Post by JeffM »

posibly, it's a big IF, I personaly feel time spend on a more authoritive server would make a much larger change to the game as a whole.
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Post by SpyroVII »

What is needed is more admins.....
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Post by JeffM »

it's impractical to asume server ops can arange baby sitters 24/7 more admins will help sure, but better then to just throw more man power at it untill there is an admin per player is not the best way. The server can do a LOT more then it does now, and it would be best to take advantage of that. Let the computer help. It's not like other games haven't had to do this before.
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Post by toaster »

Patlabor221 wrote:it's impractical to asume server ops can arange baby sitters 24/7 more admins will help sure, but better then to just throw more man power at it untill there is an admin per player is not the best way. The server can do a LOT more then it does now, and it would be best to take advantage of that. Let the computer help. It's not like other games haven't had to do this before.
Good point. If I was running a server, I would probably set karma limits on it to reduce the abuse. I think a central database with karma assigned per player is just as useful as team karma. A new player gets a default karma value x. I'd consider having open servers with (x-n) minimum karma required to play. Then, some slightly more restrictive servers with (x+n) minimum karma to play.

Pros/Cons: That would certainly eliminate newbies from those servers, which is both good and bad. Let the newbies build up experience and karma on the lower grade servers. It would keep bad-karma players from signing in with a new name just to get into a good karma world. They'd actually have to earn that karma to play. Course, if they go bad once they're in,....

Example of a potential problem: There is more than one toaster around (just using me as an example). One is evil (me) and the other is good. (I know, you all know that already )) I get bad karma on one server, where I'm registered, but the good karma earned by the good toaster on the server where he's registered offsets my bad karma sufficiently to get me into server 3, where I then annoy and upset everyone.

Need a cental database that recognizes different players with the same IDs. I really have been impersonated on some servers in the past 6 months by some users that were harassing me, and plus I just discovered that there has been another (good) toaster in the past, who doesn't appear to be active any longer. Not sure how long ago. But, I wasn't aware of that when I started using this alias, and I've been in it a while and haven't run into the "old" toaster as far as I'm aware. But, league server stats could be including his data and mine, for all I know. And they probably are, depending on how far back the data is tracked.

So, without a centralized server which discriminates between multiple users of the same alias, there are some possible new issues arising from creation of the karma. I think it would be good to develop a centralized id server that *could* be used if desired by server owners to provide a common service, and recognition across multiple servers.

It could also serve to enforce separation of user ids, and that could be used to protect IDs and solve the problem above. I would never have picked toaster if I knew I was in conflict with another user. Now that I've been using that for a while, there are a number of people who know me as such, and it's not the most convenient thing to switch IDs without confusing a lot of 'net friends / fellow players, although I thought seriously about it when I was being impersonated, and more recently when I just found out I trod on someone else by accident.

Now, the question is: how to do it? If I were going to do it, I'd start by setting up an openLDAP service as the core for the ID/authentication component, and build an interface from the bzflag server code. The LDAP server is readily configured to allow trusted servers to update it, so a trusted league server gets that. Plus, other servers could be set up as users of the LDAP server at lesser levels of trust. The league database server would gather karma changes and other stats, make determinations on the data set of accuracy based on whether those servers enforce authentication, etc., and regularly update the LDAP service.

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Post by ski »

So, is it possible to set up a server which:
+only allows 1 callsign that is assigned an IP address so that no one can use that callsign..
+If a player that has good Karma is allowed in and then loses Karma cannot be let back in until Karma is earned again?

As toaster mentioned a Centralized server would be a good idea.

How close are we to 1.12.x anyways? Just curious :)

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Post by Death Barrel »

hmmm, i can see to sides to this...especially for a guy like me.... i can see this eventually clearing my name, but inturn it could also do some damage... and i think ski pointed out why>> someone could easily steel a players callsign and use that against him, also, something like this it would not be a good thing to let it get into the wrong hands of someone.

but overall if these things can be worked out i think it would be a great idea and something myself could look foward to :)

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Post by JeffM »

you can't do something where its one callsign per IP there are many places that do connection sharing, and you have real players sharing IPs.

Karma will use a the list server as a database of players.
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Post by ski »

Well I cant wait to see it implemented.
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Post by SGI »

I'm still with the old fashin style
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Post by Red Baron2 »

i don't like the IP address thing. cause I myself play in different areas. at home and at work. if i'm at work the server won't recognize the IP and then what?
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Post by ski »

good point...

you couls always just quit your job and become a full time BZplayer ;)
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Post by SpyroVII »

And what about dynamic IP addresses? :-/
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Post by JeffM »

yeah there are many reasons you can't tie to to IP, it'll be tied to some passoword or key or something.
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Post by SGI »

Patlabor221 wrote:
yeah there are many reasons you can't tie to to IP, it'll be tied to some passoword or key or something
My car keys are oright????
Yes I think so......
karma= Servers name (Quol, Ducati, BzGirl..trusted servers)=players(callsign)=Password
Im connecting in a trusted server with my nick and I need to type my password before the login.
Automatically all servers from BZFlag.org are trusted/secure...if there is a new server with good intention how you can add to the trusted/secure servers????
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