should BZWC become a league?

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zaphod
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by zaphod » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:31 am

YES FiringSquad ::: you opened up Pandora's box! ;)
and without the possibility to pass the flag and blow some fresh air into the play-style with it,
the idea to create a new league would have never come up!!!
being worried about the general league activity I was hesitating very much!
maybe that fresh air is missing and a new play-style could help to re-activate the leagues?
anyway ::: let's try this adventure and lets start this new league! as kierra mentioned: only if we try we'll find out!
if it works: fine and if it doesn't: at least we tried!
but alone I would not dare to start it, so I asked Upsetter and ts to give me an active hand in this and they agreed.
I know that they are other great and trustworthy tanks out there that will help to create a solid base to build upon!

::: I believe also a different concept for the league itself is needed! :::
the basic idea, that you fight for your country should be a major part in it so that you can join only a team, were you're actually from!
but to assure that you'll have most of the time a mate and an opponent to match in this league, it might be a solution that after registering, you randomly and automatically are assigned to a "red" or "green" team. that means in the end you will find yourself in 2 teams ::: in your country team and in the "red" (or "green") team.
the advantage ::: you can arrange matches between red, green or nation teams and all matches will count for ranking (fixed or seasons?) and most probably you'll have always somebody to match with/against because the 2 generic teams will become huge (hopefully ;).
the "red" and "green" teams could also change according to seasons and become for example: "windows" vs "mac" vs "linux" as an idea.

::: also the map itself will get a major change! :::
- the "T" flag will disappear and will be replaced by a non used team-flag to prevent confusion where/how to cap and to take away the slight tiny advantage for the carrier.
- the bars in front of the goal will remain to give you a hard time to get onto the base, but will be passable without the "T" flag of course ;)
- the PassTheFlag plugin FiringSquad made will be a fixed part to the play-style and how matches are played to enhance the fun and tactical possibilities and blow that fresh air in. also part of the update FS made with his plugin: if you shoot the flag-carrier (even a teamie), the flag flies to were the killer was located when he fired (even a tactical team-kill will become part of the strategy ;).
- the rest remains as it is/was with the random map script by ahs3 and the 2-shots, rico and no jumping style.
- the stadium will be redone for a more contemporary look, but thats just make-up. ;)

we have already a domain with the name for the league in it ::: BzMatchBall.org
and we're working on the site! lets get this up on its feet by the 1st of november to open the stadiums for lots of exciting matches again!

any suggestions in helping to create an unique league with its concept, map and play-style are very welcome and to throw in right now to make this rock n'roll!!!

and thanks for all the input you left here to help making up minds!






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Jacko H
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Jacko H » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:52 am

No, that is stupid making a new league.
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Sum Ting Wong » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:33 pm

Sounds absolutely fantastic Zapello, I can't wait for it to get truly underway -- will bring a whole new level of fun to BZFlag in my opinion (:
Jacko h wrote:No, that is stupid making a new league.
Care to elaborate on why it would be stupid?
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by FiringSquad » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:59 pm

I'll do what I can to help.

What about jumping?

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Knox » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:53 pm

Yes, i 'd like to see it as league.

And i love the PTF plug-In, especially in the 2TeamLeague.

Jumpin': Yes, but no. I 'd say maybe.
Jumping is a nice thing (if you can it), but also if you allow it, you got to change the map. The current randam map (ducati style) doesn't support jumping the way HiX does. You'll have to make a few second level stages to jump and drive on, maybe third level stages as well. Maybe this enables new possiblities of throwing and catching flags.
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by mrapple » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:09 pm

Hi again-

Just thinking about this league and I had an ... interesting idea.

What if, (using the PTF plugin) you can "kick" the flag, not carry it. As soon as you grab the flag the server takes it and it flies in the direction you were going?

Maybe call it something like KickTheFlag? :P

This could even be a fork off of PassTheFlag. Let me know ideas, suggestions, comments.
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by jh^ » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:29 pm

About flagpass in general: it is a bit annoying how the flag flies unpredictably when you kill someone carrying the flag(this might even hurt you in match if you shoot someone), its not possible
to flag to stay put when carrier dies? Or atleast it would fly a lot less distance.

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by mrapple » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:45 pm

There's an option built into the plugin to not pass the flag on death.
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Knox » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:43 am

mrapple wrote:There's an option built into the plugin to not pass the flag on death.
Wasn't there another option which forces the flag to fly to the killer?

However, just wonder if there is a possibility to catch the flag in flight? I suppose not?!
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by mrapple » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:51 am

That would not be and never will be possible.
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by zaphod » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:19 am

@ FiringSquad
NO to jumping F.S. ;) because the map is not made for it and would need a LOT of work.

(just thinking out loud ::: if the PassTheFlag plugin could give you a boost and allows you to jump once and only for 5 seconds after grabbing the flag for longer passes?)

And definitely a YES to offside-rules ;)

@ mrapple
nice suggestion for only kicking the flag. but I guess it would be very hard for kicking only on 2vs2.

@ jh^
thanks to F.S. we have the possibility to set what the flag should do after you get shot ::: either it drops just in place, being passed with the velocity of the shot tank or flies to the killer (the killer can be a team-mate or opponent tank).
On the public server, it is set to fly to a non-team-killer and will be to any-killer on the match-servers (for tactical team-kills ;)
what seems unpredictable for you jh^ is the fast reaction of a player passing the flag before he gets shot (which adds another extra to the plugin) and therefore doesn't fly towards the killer.

@ piet (aka Knox)
that would be so great to catch the flag in flight! a nice header for shooting that goal ;)
but as it seems BZFlag has also its limits and anyways we can not jump on the MatchBall map.

@ to all who want to be part of that league
although activity for BZFlag keeps dropping, Upsetter, ts, FiringSquad and I are working hard to give it a try!
The site is coming together with an unique look but more important with the alternation of the site to give every player the possibility to play in 2 teams.
when you will sign-up to the MatchBall league, you will join automatically/randomly a generic team (we called it very creatively "red" and "green" team).
those "generic" 2 teams can:
- change name accordingly to seasons and other events.
- if they get to big, we could split them up into more teams.
- they could be mixed up for new random assignment of players at any time.
- "smart" mixing up is also a possibility (player-ranking, OS, ...)
- they are part of the ranking-system and not only for fun-matching.
but the main idea is to create 2 big teams to have always a mate AND an opponent online to match because those 2 teams will become big (hopefully).

and you can also arrange matches against the "regular" teams!
we decided not to force you into another team specified on location and therefore the "regular" teams can be created/joined as you wish (like in all other leagues).
but the team-names should somehow reflect the spirit of the BZWC and the country-specific idea we will keep for future World/Euro Cups events.

FiringSquad is working on the solution to make a non-used team-flag spawn on the map without the need for a server-mod nor using an extra player-slot to let the tiny flag disappear for easier capping (although the bars in front of the goal will remain but passable ;).
The map itself will become static with the choice of some variations to choose from.
The stadium is very hard to make work and appeal without the map-file getting huge, losing frame-rate and keeping a cool 3D effect to it (my 5th version is just trashed and I asked the BZFlag map-makers for help).

anyway ::: almost there and thanks for reading and showing interest in this!


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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Yrogirg » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:52 am

when you will sign-up to the MatchBall league, you will join automatically/randomly a generic team (we called it very creatively "red" and "green" team).
That's great. Will the league stay ducstyle + pass the flag?

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by zaphod » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:37 am

yes Yrogirg!
it will use the 2shots/noJump/rico style and absolutely using the PassTheFlag enhancement with only 1flag to capture to assure the needed offensiveness for lots off new fast-speed-action-fun ;)
also the 2Team idea works on the site, that you end up in 2 teams (a "generic" huge and a "regular" team of your choice) to always find a mate AND opponent!
we're almost there and ready for launching soon ...!

and thanks again at this point for your great inspiration with the tiny-flag to capture the 1flag only, which made the BZWC happening!
we hope that F.S. gets his plugin ready to have only that single team-flag to replace the T-flag with, but it was based on your initial input that we got so far.


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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Cobra_Fast » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:40 am

zaphod wrote:@ piet (aka Knox)
that would be so great to catch the flag in flight! a nice header for shooting that goal ;)
I could think of a way to do that, but it's very much only a tiny idea: You could track the flags flight with the plugin and check in every frame if a tank intersects with it. If it's the case you could give the flag to the player jumping through the flag. But I have no idea how far this is realizable and if it would even further enhance the new gamestyle. (Additionaly it would increase server load at a probably noticeable ammount.)
zaphod wrote:anyway ::: almost there
I'm really interested in how this league is going to evolve in the pool as it provides a very unique gameplay experience. I'm sure it's gonna have a decent launch with dozens of matches played over the first days or even weeks. But I'm in doubt about it's ability to stay as an active league for longer time (like even years).

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by joevano » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:15 pm

Cobra_Fast wrote:
zaphod wrote:@ piet (aka Knox)
that would be so great to catch the flag in flight! a nice header for shooting that goal ;)
I could think of a way to do that, but it's very much only a tiny idea: You could track the flags flight with the plugin and check in every frame if a tank intersects with it. If it's the case you could give the flag to the player jumping through the flag. But I have no idea how far this is realizable and if it would even further enhance the new gamestyle. (Additionaly it would increase server load at a probably noticeable ammount.)
I really don't think it is technically possible given that plugins are server-side. The server has no concept of frame rate (and every clients is different). I just don't see it. And even if you could... lag compensation would be an issue as well. How close would you have to be to catch? How would it look if a tank that on your screen was clearly not in the line of flight (because of lag) "caught" the flag.
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Cobra_Fast » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:58 pm

As I said it was only an *idea* on how it *could* be done. I didn't inform myself if it's possible at all prior writing it here. I know it's probably never gonna happen.
joevano wrote:The server has no concept of frame rate
You could simulate frames by checking every 50 ms (or so) though.

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by FiringSquad » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:20 pm

mrapple wrote:Just thinking about this league and I had an ... interesting idea.

What if, (using the PTF plugin) you can "kick" the flag, not carry it. As soon as you grab the flag the server takes it and it flies in the direction you were going?
How would you capture the flag?

I could force the flag to fly after a certain period. That would give you time to "control" it before passing. But that would still make it difficult to cap. You would need to pass it to directly in front of the goal and then run into the goal with it. Perhaps this is desirable. It certainly would add to the skill required.

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by mrapple » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:28 pm

Or if you "kick" the flag into the goal ;)
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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by Knox » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:50 pm

mrapple wrote:Or if you "kick" the flag into the goal ;)
Too easy, because you'd just have to kick the flag from a certain distance to the goal, which is easy to reach for a practised player. But certainly it 'd be fun.
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then? - Coleridge; English philosopher

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Re: should BZWC become a league?

Post by zaphod » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:13 am

20th of november 2010 ::: a day to remember!
today is the launch of the new BzMatchBall League!

thanks for all the input you left in this thread, we hopefully found a way to make this new league exciting and different compared to all other existing leagues!

just accept this as an invitation to take part in this adventure and to make this new league successful and rock n'roll!
without all you tank-driver's this would not be possible!

feel free to have a look around the BzMatchBall site to discover what it is all about!

hope to meet you all very soon in the brand new stadium for lots of exciting FUN!!!


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