Posting this in Leagues since this is primarily a CTF-related post. Pat or fiber - move it if you need to, no probs...
ski's post on arguing made me think of this, because the arguing is one way that can ruin an otherwise good game. There are other things that make the game a whole lot less fun, we all have our own, I suppose.
I'm not talking about lag - lag's not something that most people can change easily.
What people can change to make the game a lot more fun for everyone (including themselves!) is their "playing ethics", and that is what most concerns me. I can shoot a lagger - I can't stop someone from being an ass. I'm not naming any names, but some of these may be obvious. Here's mine:
Pausing. Argh! To have a teammate pause in the middle of a game - especially a good, close, hard fight - is just wrong, rude, and shouldn't be done. If you need to pause, then go to "observer" please, and let someone who *is* a teamplayer in.
Personal score in CTF The other day I had a "teammate" bragging about how high their score was immediately after our whole team got fragged by a Capture. If you want to play for a highscore, go to a FFA server, but don't blow your whole team up to get a point, OK? CTF is all about the flag, keeping yours out of their base, and putting their flag into yours.
Situational awareness of *your team's* flag is the most important thing, not your score. If you don't feel that way, please don't play on my side!
Uneven teams & scoring Come on - you guys know when it's cool to score during uneven teams, and when it's not. If it's 4-3, and the 3 team are all experienced players while you have 4, then "ask" if they want to CTF or not. Tonight CapN, a newbie, and I were *repeatedy* flagged by a team of 4 regulars, and I just think that that shows an extreme lack of respect and maturity. Swap out and put a new guy on the 4 team against 3 regulars, or refrain from taking unfair advantage when you know its there.
Maybe an easy way to figure it out is this: If the less-players team is able to capture (and has demonstrated it), then you can consider using your numerical advantage. If all they can do is move your flag a bit, that's no excuse to "bully" them.
A 4-3 matchup is a 33% increase in numbers of players, and 3-2 is 50% - keep that in mind, and Do Unto Others.
Log off / Log on defense You know - when a player pops up in his base and shoots you when you are recovering your flag from near their base - total BS. Yep, happened tonight, by a player I have felt respect for previously. Really lowers my opinion of someone when they do that. Is this what BZ is coming to?
Repeat messages If you have mapped a message to a key, that's great. But we only need to see the message once, not a hundred times. Bumping that key so many times in a row does nothing but annoy other people and take up bandwidth.
Well, that's a good start. Flame on, if you want. Or add your own...
CTF Peeves
CTF Peeves
"My other tank is a sailboat..."
Re: CTF Peeves
I agree with you.. But got a few comments..
Actually sometimes i understand why people repeat them selves. But mostly its annoying and they get silence. Only thing i need about silence is to set an temp. silence (like an hour).
Anyway, this isnt really a good solution, as they might have something usefull to say. And as i dont play with sound it happens that i dont notices if our flag is picked up by a badguy.
First of all, im one of those 4-3 can be fun enough to play ctf. Or that 4-3 can be just as even (or uneven) as 4-4. Sometimes I ask if CTF is okay, but at most times nobody answers. I would like to at least get an answer. Sometimes one says dont ctf, while anohter teammate is going for the flag; which in my mind decides that ctf is okay, unless he is stopped by his teammates. (or they at least try to). Most times if i ask to swicth team i get no reply. Not that Im a saint, but after doing this a number of times, you just stop to do it and try to enjoy the game or leave.KR wrote: Uneven teams & scoring Come on - you guys know when it's cool to score during uneven teams...
Actually some people think its allright to do tricks like this. A few times i've explain that it isnt fair and they stopped. When they dont they will eventually get kicked/ban'd if im around as it destroys the game (IMHO).Log off / Log on defense You know - when a player pops up in his base and shoots you when you are recovering your flag from near their base - total BS. ...
What to trade silencelists?Repeat messages If you have mapped a message to a key, that's great. But we only need to see the message once, not a hundred times. Bumping that key so many times in a row does nothing but annoy other people and take up bandwidth.
Actually sometimes i understand why people repeat them selves. But mostly its annoying and they get silence. Only thing i need about silence is to set an temp. silence (like an hour).
Anyway, this isnt really a good solution, as they might have something usefull to say. And as i dont play with sound it happens that i dont notices if our flag is picked up by a badguy.
I don't need huge pictures here.
Great Points KR
All good points KR!!
As for the logging back in to gain an advantage...I'm with DMP. If I see someone do it I will first check their lag, make sure it wasnt a lag kick, and then give them a warning. Then next time they get kicked.
As for the outnumbered flag capturing, it shouldnt take too much figuring out when the situation is right to capture. I understand that we have newbies coming in all the time. That's where the experienced players should come in and let everyone know not to Capture or at least to ask. I think for the most part people are fairly decent about this.
Also tied in with above:
If its outnumbered and you grab a flag with only the intention of bringing it down and dropping it right in front of your base, then just leave it alone in the first place. Nothing more annoying then being on an outnumbered team....having the other team drop your flag right by their base. We all know what happens next....someone eventually joins to make it even and then your flag gets captured. If you feel you must touch the flag when its outnumbered at least drop it in the middle or something.
-CapN-
As for the logging back in to gain an advantage...I'm with DMP. If I see someone do it I will first check their lag, make sure it wasnt a lag kick, and then give them a warning. Then next time they get kicked.
As for the outnumbered flag capturing, it shouldnt take too much figuring out when the situation is right to capture. I understand that we have newbies coming in all the time. That's where the experienced players should come in and let everyone know not to Capture or at least to ask. I think for the most part people are fairly decent about this.
Also tied in with above:
If its outnumbered and you grab a flag with only the intention of bringing it down and dropping it right in front of your base, then just leave it alone in the first place. Nothing more annoying then being on an outnumbered team....having the other team drop your flag right by their base. We all know what happens next....someone eventually joins to make it even and then your flag gets captured. If you feel you must touch the flag when its outnumbered at least drop it in the middle or something.
-CapN-
Its all for nought. Play the game, worry about ethical problems over your beverage of choice with friends at home. Its funny how the life of a rogue FFA'er is so much easier to deal with than that of CTF'er. I wonder how many posts concerning CTF code of ethics have been written. If you'all are serious in your effort to "clean up" the game. Create an umpire group. Let them have absolute power, and a written standard of rules. hmmm, BZCOPS for CTF. Allow them to control who and when points are awarded. Remove the individual scoreboard completely from the CTF league. Then you will find out how many people play the game as a team, and not as an individual. Get rid of any/all individual ladders. CTF is a team sport right? Only allow registered players to join the game. THis avoids imposters ruining a good player name.
Then you may have a chance of improving things. otherwise, you are fighting teenage angst and adult arrogance.
peace. (oh, thats fibers line, well, it works here)
Then you may have a chance of improving things. otherwise, you are fighting teenage angst and adult arrogance.
peace. (oh, thats fibers line, well, it works here)
.........you kids, get out of my tank...........
I mostly second what you ppl have been saying. I have to add a slightly different viewpoint to the question of unbalanced teams:
When the teams are extremely unbalanced (does not matter whether it is because it is a 3-2 situation or whether all good players are in one team), it does not necessarily make things better not to capture. When the stronger team stops capturing, they are still a lot stronger and with all of them concentrating on simply shooting the opponents, it will be very hard to players of the weaker team to survive for more than a few seconds because there will always be 2 or 3 people shooting at you as soon as you respawn.
So, I guess what I am saying is: very unbalanced teams suck always, with or without capturing the flag. If such a situation happens, the palyers should try to rebalance the teams. Another option is that one player of the stronger team pauses or does at least not really participate in the slaughter until teams are at about the same level.
When there is only a slight imbalance, then it is ok to go for the flag of course. It should be fairly easy to judge for experienced players whether the game is still fair or not.
When the teams are extremely unbalanced (does not matter whether it is because it is a 3-2 situation or whether all good players are in one team), it does not necessarily make things better not to capture. When the stronger team stops capturing, they are still a lot stronger and with all of them concentrating on simply shooting the opponents, it will be very hard to players of the weaker team to survive for more than a few seconds because there will always be 2 or 3 people shooting at you as soon as you respawn.
So, I guess what I am saying is: very unbalanced teams suck always, with or without capturing the flag. If such a situation happens, the palyers should try to rebalance the teams. Another option is that one player of the stronger team pauses or does at least not really participate in the slaughter until teams are at about the same level.
When there is only a slight imbalance, then it is ok to go for the flag of course. It should be fairly easy to judge for experienced players whether the game is still fair or not.
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The Red Baron
- Sergeant First Class
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:21 am
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logging in and out to reset score is cowardly. There is nothing to be ashamed of a poor score. Remember, the guy who is beating you once had your score. chances are, he was a poorer player for longer than you. With so many good players out here you will excell in bzflag rapidly then others who did not have so many good "teachers"
Unbalanced teams~ fine line here. especially with 4v3. Sometimes I will continue CTF. Especially if the other team has better players. However, there is no harm done asking if the other team is okay with continuing CTF. That is my "modas operandia" I'll ask "4v3, continue CTF?" if not, we frag each other. sometimes i'll go sit in a corner and wait for some one else to join the opposite team.
pausing- the only irk i have with this is when some one pauses to escape, or pauses with the flag in their possesion. It is enought to make a man lose his salvation, it drives me so mad. But pausing for small periods of time is okay. People have life outside of Bzflag. Say the telephone rings, or the nature beckons, pause and run. It is not rude to pause in the middle of a game, unless it is to escape being shot or keeping the flag. -> is down right wrong, anyway you draw it. any other instance within discretion. is fine.
Unbalanced teams~ fine line here. especially with 4v3. Sometimes I will continue CTF. Especially if the other team has better players. However, there is no harm done asking if the other team is okay with continuing CTF. That is my "modas operandia" I'll ask "4v3, continue CTF?" if not, we frag each other. sometimes i'll go sit in a corner and wait for some one else to join the opposite team.
pausing- the only irk i have with this is when some one pauses to escape, or pauses with the flag in their possesion. It is enought to make a man lose his salvation, it drives me so mad. But pausing for small periods of time is okay. People have life outside of Bzflag. Say the telephone rings, or the nature beckons, pause and run. It is not rude to pause in the middle of a game, unless it is to escape being shot or keeping the flag. -> is down right wrong, anyway you draw it. any other instance within discretion. is fine.
Beware! I'm going to clone myself and spread those clones all over the world!
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Spaceman Spiff
- Registered User
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:59 pm
Uneven teams, eh? Well... sadly enough, I rarely see a balanced CTF game. Once in a while things will even up, but even then it doesn't usually last long. You join a CTF server to play CTF. If you have moral reasons for trying to make the teams "fair".. then, by all means, go ahead and do so. I personally don't enjoy CTF unless it's somewhat fair (because I like a challenge).
Pausing..... hmm. Well..... sometimes people have legitimate reasons for pausing. I don't mind it if they're paused for thirty seconds or so, but if they leave for a couple of minutes I start to get sort of mad.
I'm still annoyed with the logging in/out stuff. As people have suggested before, we need "semi-persistant" score/position records (that last for about five-ten minutes) so that people can't #1- Log off/on to reset their score and #2- Log off/on to spawn in their CTF base in order to be nearer an enemy.
Pausing..... hmm. Well..... sometimes people have legitimate reasons for pausing. I don't mind it if they're paused for thirty seconds or so, but if they leave for a couple of minutes I start to get sort of mad.
I'm still annoyed with the logging in/out stuff. As people have suggested before, we need "semi-persistant" score/position records (that last for about five-ten minutes) so that people can't #1- Log off/on to reset their score and #2- Log off/on to spawn in their CTF base in order to be nearer an enemy.
dmp - yes, I will borrow some names from your silencelist I only have a couple piggynames on mine...
CapN makes a good point that I forgot. If teams are uneven, then just take the flag to the middle of the field and drop it. That way there is a goal to the game besides just shooting other tanks, and it is much more fair to a weaker team.
I used to do that a lot (and got yelled at for it), still do sometimes, tho' more often I'll go off to the side and wait, unless someone shoots at me - then I shoot back
.
If there is a weaker team but numbers are even, I tend to carry the flag more in the middle of the field, not down the sidelines where I may slip by unnoticed. That gives the weaker team a better chance at recovering their flag.
Koba - Scoreless CTF servers? Sure, why not - that makes a lot of sense when the game is not about score, it's about Capturing. Could refocus peoples priorities. Good point.
My individual scores would be way higher if I got a point for every opposing team member that I killed by Capturing As it is, I rarely have a high personal score because I think "flag flag flag"...
Chestal wrote:
I only have a couple piggynames on mine...CapN makes a good point that I forgot. If teams are uneven, then just take the flag to the middle of the field and drop it. That way there is a goal to the game besides just shooting other tanks, and it is much more fair to a weaker team.
I used to do that a lot (and got yelled at for it), still do sometimes, tho' more often I'll go off to the side and wait, unless someone shoots at me - then I shoot back
.If there is a weaker team but numbers are even, I tend to carry the flag more in the middle of the field, not down the sidelines where I may slip by unnoticed. That gives the weaker team a better chance at recovering their flag.
Koba - Scoreless CTF servers? Sure, why not - that makes a lot of sense when the game is not about score, it's about Capturing. Could refocus peoples priorities. Good point.
My individual scores would be way higher if I got a point for every opposing team member that I killed by Capturing
As it is, I rarely have a high personal score because I think "flag flag flag"...Chestal wrote:
Solid advice.very unbalanced teams suck always, with or without capturing the flag. If such a situation happens, the palyers should try to rebalance the teams. Another option is that one player of the stronger team pauses or does at least not really participate in the slaughter until teams are at about the same level.
"My other tank is a sailboat..."