Veterans vs.Rookies

[Starski]

We'll its my idea and im planning on making the website when i get some good feedback.



Let me explain how it will work by the following:im going to get feedback,then ill make the website,
i will get the day planned if I get good feedback it will happen in the summer time,im gonna get a server ready from a server thats good for European and American soil,i will try and work it out with the GU League Admins as we'll so everyone is aware of it,and then let the games begin. I just now thought of scheduling it before the Rikers Cup i dont know if this will be a problem but it could be a "warm up" or something fun for the players to do instead of wait the long 30 mins just like a fm but veterans or rookies get bragging rights.


How we will figure who will play on what teams.

1.)Veterans(not decided)
2.)Rookies(not decided)
3.)How we will choose who plays-We will choose through 2 team leaders.
4.)How the team leaders will be chosen depends whos helping me with setting up things.
4.Continued)or we will let GU League Admins choose.dont worry who plays and dont ask.and i can choose team leaders.
6.)There will be 3 games played and the most interesting thing is it is a 5 vs 5 and 15 players will playfor each side,which means 3 diffrent sections of subs.
7.)The time of when it begins when Europeans and Americans both are ready Time scedule will be the same as Riker Cup.

NOTICE:Some might think this is a bad idea,so try not to put Danji down and remember I need feedback.

[Carnage]

i like the idea but rookies and veterans is wrong classification

youngsters vs oldies would be better

[dexter]

Let me remind you, that the RikerCup was just held about two months ago. Which effectively means that most players aren't that interested in another big event. A big part of the american players, who were essential in organizing the RikerCup have been inactive for over a month now, busy with work and school. I don't see how your young vs. old should work either. First off, if you're 12, you shouldn't even be registered on these forums, let alone the GU league. (Google COPPA.) Secondly, I don't think you can divide the league into "13-16" and "17+", so making even teams would be pretty difficult. Not to mention, some players don't necessarily want to give out personal information like that. It's quite an expectation, to have every player publicize their correct age. I'm not sure if you were thinking along these lines, but you should know that age is completely independent of age.

I don't understand why you are trying to set up an entirely new system for big, organized fms.
Setting up some sort of tournament or whatever, is a huge ordeal. And why go through all the trouble to making new rules, websites, etc. etc.
I think everyone is happy with the RikerCup system and is looking forward to another one during the summer, but not before then. We already have a system that everyone knows and most like. We have rules that everyone knows and a website ready to go.
This seems to be a random and irrational idea for something new. I think it's creative, but that it'll simply take way too much time and energy to organize and most likely would not even work out in the end.

We have something _just_ like this and it works, perfectly. Why not stick to it and just wait til the summer, or whenever the majority of the league expresses interest?

[slime]

It's a great idea, very innovative and creative, and looks quite good on paper (in this case computer screen), but I'm not sure if it would work out in the end. You'll have to be more specific on the criteria needed to play for the veteran and rookie teams. For example, some people consider me as a veteran, but I haven't been around for nearly as long as some other players have. Also, there are many different opinions about how mature I am throughout the league. I am using me as an example, but this applies to most players as well. Perhaps giving a time range of how long a player has been playing BZFlag or GU would be easier to sort players out.

One concept I really liked about this was the 5v5, 15 player thing. 10vs10 matches (such as the Riker Cup) seem just too big for me, and it's so hard to communicate with your team. I was wondering, do you mean 5v5 for 10 minutes, then sub the next 5, then with 10 minutes left sub the next 5, or the same 5 people from each team play the whole match, but just one match? I'd personally support the latter, it would cause for less confusion, while giving more people a chance to play, the opportunity to pick teams, etc.

Anyway, it's a good idea, but I'm not sure if GU needs two different tournaments a year. It's hard enough scheduling and mapping out the Riker Cup as it is. However, if your idea goes through, count me in.

[Mucho Maas]

the same 5 people from each team play the whole match, but just one match? I'd personally support the latter, it would cause for less confusion, while giving more people a chance to play, the opportunity to pick teams, etc.

Anyway, it's a good idea, but I'm not sure if GU needs two different tournaments a year. It's hard enough scheduling and mapping out the Riker Cup as it is. However, if your idea goes through, count me in.

I agree, 3 matches as a 5vs5, with in total 15 players each team would be great. If you make it happen, I would be game.

[dexter]

You also haven't said if you want it to be Euro vs American or all players put into the Rookie/Veteran groups, I'm assuming the latter. You say that how we are going to determine Rookies and Veterans in undecided. How are you going to divide players? It can't be done by their date of joining, because obviously most older players are a lot better than the newer ones. Not sure if what other criteria there is..
It seems are people are very fond of the 5vs5 idea, which makes it appealing even with the Riker Cup around. Why not arrange a tournament with 5vs5 matches, but leave the Rookie/Veteran thing out of it. There are a lot of other ways to make teams.. just not really convinced of this system..yet.

[Starski]

yeah slime i i meant uh 5v5 depending on how it happens we will have diffrent subs for instance:1st game>5 people 2nd game>next 5 subs 3rd game>next 5 subs.

[smoooth]

Danji, I think you are on the right track. I disagree with Dexter in the fact that I think people would be interested in another large "cup" style match. I think these generally are fun and raise morale for the league. However I wonder if veterans vs. rookies would be a good match up. I mean there is a good probability that the veterans will significantly own the rookies which could make it very un-fun for the rookies and make it a very lopsided event. However it still is not a bad idea but might want to take into consideration the skill level of the veterans.

I might recommend such alternate battles as:

Americas Cup - Canada vs. United States
US Only - East vs. West (even if there is not enough west just pick a team to represent the west)
Keyboard vs. Mouse
Laggers vs. Non-Laggers
Admins vs. Pros (everyone else)
Linux/Apple vs. Windows

Just a thought.

smoooth

[quantum dot]

If you want to do GU League vets vs rookies I propose to use the GU League membership date to determine who is a vet and who is a rookie. Say, <2 years rookie, >2 years vet since the league is 4+ years old. You can sort the list of players in order "date joined" and sort the teams out in a click.

I know some players have been in bz long before they joined gu league, say catay, captN, Mur, .., but in GU League standards about tactics or skills they are actually rookies

In this sorting the most vet (still active) players are:
menotume 2005-01-16
dax 2005-01-16
quantum dot 2005-01-16
orbit 2005-01-19
romfis 2005-01-19
Steph 2005-01-19
Red Baron2 2005-01-20
The Red Baron 2005-01-20
brad 2005-01-20
Saturos

however, the rookies arent what I would call bad players, you find people like:

Lil Dog
smoooth
dexter
Danji (the man himself)
kenshin
therisingsun

and these are just a few names I spoted on the run. So I do not think the teams would be unbalanced at all.

[Zac]

what about zac????

[quantum dot]

what about zac????

zac is also a great rookie !

[Mucho Maas]

I would even go as far to say that Zac is the prototype rookie

[Zac]

ohh.!!! im not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing foo??

[dexter]

Smoooth: Don't get me wrong here. I'm not against having tournaments like these and I agree that they do raise a certain sense of fun and morale in the league, that might have been lost these last couple of weeks. BUT, a lot of players that make this league entertaining have been very inactive lately. Just to name a few: Red Baron2, Red Baron3, Doink, hiya, QuantumTim, (all vets)
I just think that this isn't the right time to do something like this, since so many people are busy. But maybe it is? Perhaps this will get some more people active again, that just don't feel like playing? I gotta say I liked your other ideas for dividing players.

QD: Say we do divide players into the 4+ year joining frame. How do you select who plays? There are a lot of players who joined way back in 2005 and are still pretty active. Same with the other half, the rookies. Danji had the idea of two leaders.. would they be selecting players based on skill or login date or what? Would the teams really be fair? I can think of 15 awfully good players who are active and joined in 2005.
BTW: A lot of players have created new accounts, e.i. Kenshin didn't join the league in 2008 for the first time, neither did soxs or tele.
I think this might be a nice chance for all the non US/Europe players to get a chance in participating in such an event. Also for the players who can't quite compete with the likes of orbit or Rb2 in the Rikers.

So maybe this tournament shouldn't be based on skill in any way. It doesn't matter how you divide the league, there are obviously always gonna be way more than 60 players in total. Perhaps we should focus on how we're going to pick the players, rather than divide them.

Some few ideas Satu and I came up with to divide players:

- Alphabetically
- Callsign length
- Amount of teammates (weird..kinda)
- Cross total of letters in a callsign, where A=1, Z=26
- Stats on strayers, e.i. online time, favorite team color
- Amount of logins on gu.bzleague.com
- Mouseboxsize (in the config) -10 to 5 and 6 to 15+

Anyone else have some more ideas?

[Starski]

need more feedback and ill be working on it dont call out dexter he's atcually is helping me.giving me ideas and him as we'll as the others are just expressing their thoughts.

[quantum dot]

@dexter: I was simply proposing a clear cut way to divide the league into rookies and vets, since there seemed to be some confusion on how to do this on the previous posts. The players you are mentioned are re-joiners, and as such it is not difficult to place them as vets according to my definition.

How the players are picked is another history.

[Knox]

- Alphabetically
- Callsign length
- Amount of teammates (weird..kinda)
- Cross total of letters in a callsign, where A=1, Z=26
- Stats on strayers, e.i. online time, favorite team color
- Amount of logins on gu.bzleague.com
- Mouseboxsize (in the config) -10 to 5 and 6 to 15+

We also could chose the teams randomly. It would give the same result.
And that would be a normal fun match.

Keyboard vs. Mouse
[...]
Admins vs. Pros (everyone else)
Linux/Apple vs. Windows

I think these ideas will be more successful, because, for example have keyboard player another style of playing than mouse gamer.

[dexter]

There are a lot less keyboard players than mouse players. I don't there are even 30 active keyboarders in the league. Would be hard to make teams..

[plasma kaz]

yeah, the keyboard vs mouse idea would definitely be a tough one.

Some are really good ideas though. Admins vs. everyone else sounded appealing to me, as did OS's.

[quantum dot]

yeah, the keyboard vs mouse idea would definitely be a tough one.

Some are really good ideas though. Admins vs. everyone else sounded appealing to me, as did OS's.

admins vs everyone else sounds like smashing the power establishment. I guess many would find it fun to hammer our heads

[Saturos]

admins vs everyone else sounds like smashing the power establishment. I guess many would find it fun to hammer our heads

We can always recruit new admins beforehand.

[slime]

I don't believe admins vs everyone else would have the desired effect Danji is trying to establish. Vets vs Rookies would allow for some of the newer players (and even older players), who don't have much of a chance to be picked for the Riker Cup, a chance to play in a tournament. But, perhaps that's not the way he's going at all

The admins vs everyone else does sound appealing to me, though

[Monster]

Personally I really like dexter's / Saturos' ideas (especially the name length thing , but I've to agree with piet, would maybe be like a random funmatch.
Mouse vs Keyboark would be interesting but maybe not possible.
I liked most Laggers vs Non-Laggers.
How about Teamleader vs Others
or Namechanger vs Others
just what came to my mind right now.
wfg Monster

[dexter]

Well, we have plenty of really cool ideas now. Why don't we just group up sometime on a weekend and make some teams?
This doesn't have to be such a big thing with months of announcing and arranging. We could just try a couple of things. Windows vs. OS X / Linux, Admins vs Humans, etc. and just see what works best. If enough people show up, we'd maybe be able to make it a weekly thing.

[Knox]

To meet one time per week, or at least one time per month, would be cool, like meeting to play chess. On those meetings is the highest chance to meet people you hadn't seen for a long time. I support this idea. Maybe we could try a big 60min funmatch.

Sunday afternoon: BZFlag; big match...

And of course, we could try to make different teams, like lagger - non-lagger, admins - others, A-M - N-Z, whatever comes.