A new idea from a newer player..

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rhapsody
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A new idea from a newer player..

Post by rhapsody » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:45 am

Hi!
As most of you know, I am relatively new to the league, and since joining I have become obsessed with it. During my online time I have had several discussions amongst various players talking about how skilled certain players in the league are, and how some are more than others.

This had led me to the thinking of a new and unique way of viewing the best players in the league. And my idea is this:

to develop a page on the GU League website that lists "Power Rankings" of the top 15 or so players. Now this would of course be taking skill/teamwork into consideration, and a few ways of deciding on the players could be:

-a vote from the entire GU community (this probably wouldn't be the best way)
-or a designated group of elite players/admins to choose in private
-and probably a tougher way ( also not the best presumably) is to "code" it somehow to where it would record kill to death ratio/ caps/ saves/etc... In matches. ( again, would probably be a little tough to achieve)
those are just some thoughts...

Now before you make your mind up on this topic, hear me out:

Cons:
- might cause arguing over whether the players' rankings are accurate
- also might make GU too competitive as far as individual play goes
- players could leave the league as a result of not enough recognition

Pros:
- an entirely new element adding an ambition to players not on the list yet, who are working to get better
- one more unique topic to chat about in forums/ chat
- would be rewarding to players on the list to get good recognition with the community

And if that works out, maybe adding one more list of "Rising Stars" which is set in no particular order, and lists newer players ( like me :D ) that are quickly gaining knowledge of GU as a whole ( skill/ tactics/ teamwork).

Again, these are simply some ideas that I would love to see implemented into the league. Tell me what you think, whether it be good or bad! :D

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by red-der » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:33 am

Ranking the way someone plays in gu leagues is a very difficult thing:

In some teams, there are "specialists"; good in getting the flag, less good in defending or in capping.
There are weaker player with really good teamwork.
And others dont bother how often they get killed but the way they play is important for the result of the match.
..
..
..
And so on, I could write down at least 20 points why a Power Ranking in GU League doesnt work.


But,
there is a way you can see how skilled a certain player is:

Its called 1v1 bzleague

Most matches are played on a ducati-style map, but the gu (hix) map is official there too. Since there is an european 1v1 gu (hix) map, a lot more matches are played there.

If you want your personal ranking, go and challenge the players on the hix map. Im sure most of the gu players will match you - either in an official 1v1 or in a funmatch.

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by ts » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:31 am

I do not think this could work.
There are players that depend on good teamplay, others can inspire their team while different ones are focussing on killing and ignore flags more.

1vs1 is not a solution to these rating problems as the mates are no longer part of the equation (no teamwork possible). It could help to measure the "killing skill", though.

What I would like instead would be something like a list of nicest players (sportsmanship) elected by community to promote good behaviour.
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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by dexter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:02 am

I understand where you're coming from AR, but I think this would lead to more of a competition and a lof of arguing, than something productive.

ts

I think people should just be seen for who they are. Giving out awards for behaving nice is a bit of an overkill. Players should act the way they are and not pretend to be somebody else in order to be chosen as 'Nicest GU Player' or something similar..

Just my 2 cents. :)

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by kierra » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:40 am

In theory, interesting concept, AR
You throw this out too quickly though.
-a vote from the entire GU community (this probably wouldn't be the best way)

To me that would be one of the best criteria to measure a player's greatness. I don't care for the term ''power ranking', it connotes just raw skill. You can look at the world of professional sports and see the talented player who throws tantrums, whines with losses, and/or is obnoxious, bratty, prideful...the list goes on. And then there are those skilled players who always talk of the team effort, who are the true example of a sportsman: humble, deferring the glory of the win to all the team, gracious to the losers.
GU has both kinds....a player may have skill but his character is such that there is little else to admire. A vote from the community, if they are honest at looking at the whole picture of the player, would be worth more.

Any smaller the group (elite players or admins-some are too inactive to weigh in on this anyway), you just magnify the popularity contest aspect, everyone has their favorites, their judgment clouded, their bias set, their measuring stick different, etc.

There is something to be said about a Good Sportsmanship award....again only in theory. That would be the best focus....for it encompasses a player's behavior toward all and not just his superior skills- you need both. Again the community's vote would matter most.

Nice thought, AR...but it would probably deteriorate into a popularity contest and it's real meaning lost.
It's a sad commentary that an award is needed to motivate people to be nice, decent players to all.


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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by rhapsody » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:44 pm

Thanks for repyling to most post guys. :D

red: I understand where you are coming from as far as just skill is involved, but to me a 1v1 would be irrelevant to the idea I am getting at. 1v1's are mostly about hiding and pure 1v1 tactics, and does not take teamwork/capping into consideration (in my opinion at least). And again, the rankings would be based on how well the players are playing in official matches in the GU league.

ts: The topics you pointed out in your comment are also what i''d like to be part of the rankings. I'm not sure if i stated clearly enough what the rankings would be about, but, my idea is taking skill/teamwork/tactics/sportmanship/attitude/etc.. all into consideration. Which is why it led me to the thinking of a special group of people who know all of those things about each player, so that the process could be alot more accurate.

dexter: I agree with everything you said. This could very well overshadow what the league is all about, if it's done the wrong way at least. This is why my Cons far outweight my Pros, and were obviously easier to come up with. I also agree that simply a "sportsmanship/attitude" award is fruitless because people will not act or talk in agreement with their true character.

kierra: The term "power ranking" was just a name to give you the idea of where I was coming from. I agree that it would be nice for the community to vote to some extent, but does the whole community neccesarily know who is the most skilled, or even who has the best character? Probably not. Just an example, I have talked to a couple of newer players who said was I was one of the better players in the league :|, which is completely inaccurate of course. And it also makes the specific group idea seem more appropriate. Although, I guess the vote could be hosted on a website somewhere, and the players who felt like they could vote accurately would do so. Again, just looking at this from all standpoints.

One thing we all can agree on is that basing it off skill alone could get highly arguementative, and turn the league into a contest. That is why the other aspects are so vital.

Remember, this is simply an idea. Everything that exists starts with an idea. The Riker Cup was not perfect when it was thought up, but after a few trials.. the kinks are/and have been worked out (so to speak). This is my perspective on this topic as well. And of course, all of us want to know how "good" we are in other players' eyes correct? :D

Oh, and also, my thought was that the rankings would change every week/month based on how those players are playing at that time. For example, say billy bob plays in a few matches where his skill/teamwork outclass the rest of the players, he would then be recognized by the league as playing good atm, which as a result may move him up in the standings and vice versa. Anyways, you guys get what i am saying.

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by red-der » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:24 pm

As you stated before, the rated things in 1v1 league is only part of a complete gu player. And that was my point, too.
There are that much criteria to rate a player, and not everybody finds the same things important. Kierra and ts for example are way more interested in the sportmanship of a player and the teamwork, than me seeing the importance of the personal 1v1 skills. Both things - and much more - are important and necessary in a good GU player.

@dexter:
"..Players should act the way they are and not pretend to be somebody else in order to be chosen as 'Nicest GU Player' or something similar.."
Honestly, a lot of player should not act the way they are. Ive seen a lot of complaing, accusing and bad behavior while playing. But you are right, there is no need for an award. If someone wanna match me / my team - good behavior is a condicio sine qua non.

@Atomic Rain:
If you stay a little longer in GU, you will get your Power Ranking;
After some months you have played with and against a lot of other players, you know whats important for you (your list) and there it is: your personal power ranking, updating and changing after every match you play :mrgreen:

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by dexter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:14 pm

@red-reder:

What I was trying to say, was that I didn't think it was a good idea because people would act differently than they actually are. I was not saying that people SHOULD act the way they do. But in the end, maybe tricking them into acting nice for some award might be the way to go?..

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by red-der » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:17 pm

@dexter:
Mabye this gets a little off-topic (sry AR),
but there is no need to "trick" someone to act nice. Most players are fair and behave well, and the rest - I am sure - dont care about an award for behaving well or showing good sportsmanship.

And yes, I see the need for some players to get help acting in a special way. But I think they should get this "help" by dint of the admins. Some things are not acceptable - we have a lot of young players here.

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by dexter » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:08 pm

Could see it both ways, I guess. You're probably right though, that people who don't behave well won't care much for some award. But on the other hand, some might.

I'm not into statistics and awards much myself. Statistics don't understand that people are human. Sometimes we act like this, sometimes we act like that. Good days an' bad days. I don't know how you are supposed to display that kind of stuff in some statistic. I think people should make their own individual opinion about players and their behavior. I mean, everyone can think for their self, right? :)
I feel that this is definitely going to back-fire on us..

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by rhapsody » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:09 pm

Well for starters, yeah your guys were getting a little off topic :P .
dexter wrote:I don't know how you are supposed to display that kind of stuff in some statistic. I think people should make their own individual opinion about players and their behavior. I mean, everyone can think for their self, right? :)
I completely agree with this quote from you dexter, and it is kind of relative to my thought on this. Everyone should have their own personal opinions about players' skill/sportsmanship, hence the community vote. And maybe sportsmanship isnt necesarrily a needed element. After all, my idea is simply to list some of the best players in the league, kind of like a list of "all-star's" in sports. No one has to agree with me on this, but I think it would be a nice addition to the team rankings/ratings and such. I think making the league more competitive has its pros and cons. If people are playing more seriously, competiton in matches would be increased and the all-around level of play in the league would rise, making the league the "best" group of players on bz. Having fun is of course important to the leagues' success, and what's to say this cant be fun without being too competitive? It can be done, i know it.

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by Starski » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:29 pm

lol i just dont wanna feel like im at a lower level than somebody that would make me cry :cry: no just kidding but yeah that really would make everyone competitive and if something does happen by accident like im above orbit that would make him look bad :) and we dont want to make players feel like they are worth nothing.
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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by red-der » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:50 pm

Congratulations danji:

No majuscule and only one full stop. But hey, 2 smilies in it.
:lol-old:

Had to read it 4 or 5 times...
:turtle:

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by Shooter » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:38 pm

Now, yes I agree that making a "power ranking" or something of the sort would be catastrophic. I'm all for good behavior and sportsmanship, and I'm going to head a bit off topic (sorry) and give my 2 cents..

Instead of a "player ranking", we could maybe just put a spot on the site for positive comments. This would and should not be a chat room though. It's just a spot where maybe after a match someone could say something nice about the other team or something. Or maybe a team is nearing a milestone; people could give their kudos there.

Again I'm sorry to get off topic but I'm just building off of AR's idea :)

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by rhapsody » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:00 pm

Okay so, after further thought, I had decided to go ahead and take matters into my own hands :P.

On my GU profile page is a top 10, preliminary list, just to kinda see how it works out. Tell me what you think :)

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by plasma kaz » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:22 am

heh, I noticed the list isn't there anymore :P
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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by rhapsody » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:42 am

Yeah :P
Well i had the list up for a few days, and a few players looked at it and debated it with me. And in the end, I've found that a list like that is rather useless, and cannot be very accurate, as everyone's opinion varies.
So I took it down.

Go ahead and say "I told you so" :P

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Re: A new idea from a newer player..

Post by plasma kaz » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:07 am

:D sorry I couldn't resist
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