Bad behavior in official matches

[red-der]

I am not sure if I should post this here or under another topic. But it was in an official GU match, so I start here:

While playing an official GU match, there occured some things I am really unhappy with. It seems normal that while matching someone calls another one cheater or uses wtf, ??? or how?
Another thing is the increasing lag and jitter that some players have if their own team is loosing. It seems cruel that you start a match with a lag of 70 ms and suddenly the lag of your opponent goes up to 200, 300 and a lot of jitter, especialy while capping.

That are things I learned to live with - because I have to.

But I think its really not ok that someone - especially players from the other team - start things like stfu, or using words like "arsehole" to attribute other players if they complain about lag or jitter problems. What concerns me the most, this happend while an admin is watching the match.....

There are a lot of underage players in GU league and thats the way they learn this behavior is ok. They see an old / good player behave this way while an admin / referee is there and does nothing....

So I really ask the admins in GU league ( I didnt noticed such a bad behavior in other leagues) to watch this increase in bad behavior and do something against it. If this goes on, GU league is neither a place to learn how to behave in a good and sportmanship way, nor would I want my kids to play in it.

[quantum dot]

You are absolutely right, and GU has always been known for being tough in dealing with language, accusations, and bad behaviour in general. Could you please send to any admin the match details or hints to find it in the recordings?

thank you

[red-der]

@quantum dot:
I will adress this special match to the gu admins too - i just sleep a night over it, to be more objective.

But I posted here because I think it starts to become a common behavior of some players. And we should talk about it in the forum to show its NOT the way players should deal with each other.

[kierra]

Bad behavior is not new, nor is the use of bad language and name calling.
See this thread begun by snow monkey just this past May:
http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=14090

Most players know what is and isn't acceptable in language and attitude on the gu/duc/pb and OL servers. IMHO, they don't need to be reminded/ warned repeatedly, 'language'. For the most part, I warn once, then kick, then ban...anyone, new or old. If a new player doesn't understand a simple sentence (no bad language, no tking, no name calling), they will learn quickly or simply forfeit the privilege of playing....simple as that!
Being admin is a position of authority that carries with it the responsibility to maintain a respectful atmosphere and insure the integrity of the games. The challenge is doing so in a respectful manner as well.
It is conceivable that the admin in this instance was afk and unaware of what was going on.

What players can do is: 1. Take screen shots, 2. send info on match to admins for viewing of the replay (don't stoop to their level of behavior, or you're just as bad), 3. refuse to match those who behave like that.(works for me), 4. Team captains can hold their mates to a higher level of behavior (you can kick them off if they are repeatedly obnoxious).
It might be interesting to begin to hold team captains somewhat responsible for the behavior of their mates in matches....they are, after all, there at your invitation and you hold the keys to them staying on the team

[ts]

Heh I remember I once complained to one team captain but basically got the reply that he thinks it's good. I do not think the captains should be made responsible though. In the end if someone else in their team swears then all they could do is to kick that one from their team.

Not all players are equal. Some are always involved in bad language or help starting that. If we require captains to kick players involved in these incidents we would loose players because some only want to play in a few teams while others don't care and keep switching teams or even create a new team together.

In summary I think team captains should motivate their members to stay clean but dealing with broken rules should be left to the admins.

[zaphod]

well I believe that this is simply a human-being-matter ::: there are (many) bad and a (few) good loser's!
up to you to "teach" sportsmanship!

[Zelgadis]

Yes you are right red. There is a small group of a few players who are always involved in that. I wont tell names, but i think everyone knows who i mean with that. There are also players who explode if the opponent team pass camps, they just rejoin as observers or they just leave. Even if they were leading by 2-0 or something like that. It just annoys and ruins the fun. There was a such macht one week ago, i think Red was there too..The opponent team had to promise to "take back" the passcamp, only for the chance to continue. What happened? The opponent team lost the match.

[Monster]

I don't really mind when someone is using bad language vs me, because I know they can be banned because of it. What I think is really annoying is the constantly "???", "wtf", "wow nice lag/jitt" etc. In most cases it's like saying "cheater". I think I know what match red-der was taling about and I'm totally pro bans, because of bad language. But I also understand when somebody gets annoyed by the constantly cheat accusations wether players only say "wtf, thru" or actually use the term "cheater". Unfortunately there is no point in banning players for questionmarks, but IMHO people should think about what they make their opponent feel when they constantly let them feel distrust.
Monster

[gentle giant]

Yeah every single one of you that posted here is right. Heres the problem i have. Everyone knows i have high jitter and lag, so they will ask me to match and ill say ok. When we are losing no one says anything about it, but once we start winning they will be like "wtf" "thru" or "jitt". I mean, you ask me to match and then when i start to pick my game up you complain about my jitt? I'd rather you complain about it the whole game then to complain about it when i start actually killing you lol. You people know who you are but you should realy start to use your common sense or your gu ego will go downhill fast.

[red-der]

Seems you asked too often players from certain teams who are known for their complaining

For me jitter is ok if it stays the same the whole match. In my posting above I adressed the "cruel "lag increasing in special situations not the players who have a "natural" higher jitter. Would be unfair to complain about that, its not their (your) fault.

Maybe we should make a little FAQ/ Info about what behavior we want an accept and what not. Its not necessary that all that unwanted things are punished with bans. It should be enough to exactly decalare some things as uncool / unsportmanshiplike / bad behavior. That could be a little guide for beginners in gu league and better than learning "some behaviors" by others.
You could say we have some great personalities which show and live good sportmanship. And I fully agree, but the new players usually dont join such (invitation only) teams, so there is no one to teach them.

[kierra]

First of all, how many ppl actually read the FAQs page? By the same token, I think you need to be careful about more rules. The more rules, the less freedoms. Basic to any situation is treating ppl with respect and good sportsmanship...that determines what you type whether you're winning or losing. I do think there is a lack of consistency in the enforcing of the rules. Bad language is bad language...should be an automatic warning (ONCE), kick then ban(short length to beginners, longer for repeat offenders). Again, I don't think a player needs to be reminded again and again about their language. 'Non-noobs' know the rules...imnsho, admins need to just enforce them consistently across the board. Make it a line drawn in the sand; you cross the line, you face the consequence. Don't be afraid to act. Walk tall and carry a big stick! If language and bad sportsmanship is a problem ( and it is), then come down hard. 3 days & 1week ban for some of the recent replays I've watched were a pittance compared to the behavior in those games.

It's a lot like parenting....most of you are probably glad you aren't a baron....BUT if you think about it, my kids are some of the best behaved, respectful, and examples of good sportsmanship anywhere on bz and they were raised knowing clearly the rules and the consequences for breaking them and by God's grace, dad baron and I applied those consequences consistently. Excruciatingly predictable consequences work....but it takes diligence on the part of leadership. After all, leadership brings not only privilege, but responsibility as well.

Just for the record....I'm a fun mom at home, too.

[Knox]

Yes, there are several players, probably more than several, that get aggressive if they lose, and i unfortunately have to confess that i sometimes start whining, too, but most of the things I say are sarcasm, I don't really mean it serious. It's only that i start getting unhappy with my skills while losing.

Blaming others on own fails and things like that is just a matter of self-control. And self-control is something you can learn.
If you're getting angry, just don't annoy the other player with it, stop typing in public, shout at your computer or whatever makes you happy, but, please, don't write things like "what the feck", "???" or "a*hole".
Remember, nobody really wants to humiliate you. They all just want to win, probably nothing personal, hopefully.
As long as i remember BZFlag was a nice and friendly society. If something upsets you, speak with someone about it, like red-der did in this topic.
Someone will find a solution for your problem.

[Monster]

Yesterday I played a fm vs Joss and Grace F and others. However I wasn't able to handle their lag and couldn't stop myself from complaining and whining :S But even when you once can't control yourself, there is always the possibility to ask for excuse, as I've done it later. Again: "Sorry joss "
When you find yourself writing "what???" or typing questionmarks multiple times, think about an excuse after the match
Best wishes
Monster

[jh^]

This kind of behaviour seems to happen also sometimes in matches involving gu admins, so i guess even they are not safe from frustration of loosing bad and suspicions.

[quantum dot]

This kind of behaviour seems to happen also sometimes in matches involving gu admins, so i guess even they are not safe from frustration of loosing bad and suspicions.

I should clarify that gu admins are mortal people like everyone else. You would expect they behave above average, and I think they do, but they are under screening like everyone else is by other gu admins and players. So, if you have any complain contact one of us. No one is immune to warnings or bans for bad behaviour.

[jh^]

didnt want to complain, just wanted to point out we can all behave badly certain conditions.

[quantum dot]

didnt want to complain, just wanted to point out we can all behave badly certain conditions.

and I certainly agree with you, just pointing that if you see a gu admin behaving badly, please let us know. We all can get "mad" at times, but admins should do it much less frequently than the average player. It would not be the first time one of us gets a well deserved reprimand ...

[kierra]

quantum dot wrote ....if you see a gu admin behaving badly,... It would not be the first time one of us gets a well deserved reprimand ...

Menotume needs some sort of disciplinary actions for tking.....esp tking my tank. Such abuse from an admin is unthinkable!!!

[red-der]

Yes, I absolutly agree with kierra.

I have never seen more teamkills in my life than in matches meno involved.

[Foo]

I don't know how many people remember the old days on ducati..but there was a very similar problem. And it wouldn't stop. It just went on and on, and finally it got a hold off GU as well. We couldn't stop it there, access to the league sites, the match servers, no way to stop it.
Also admins involved, went high up in the hierarchy.....actually the same one....i have no clue what to do with menotume and how we can stop him.

[Bambino]

You must retaliate! TK him back!!!

[lep]

Being the terrible GU player that I am, its frustration

Frustration in a human is aroused when he/she cannot achieve a goal. It is also started when a human finds another that is more capable at a specific task. This arousing frustration puts out a negative outlook on the mind, causing irrational behavior.

In simpilar words, no one is perfect. everyone has their own feelings, and we need a way to express them. Therefore, bad language is used. its normal, but wrong. just bash ur head on the keyboard

[Bambino]

You must not know meno that well

[menotume]

Menotume needs some sort of disciplinary actions for tking.....esp tking my tank. Such abuse from an admin is unthinkable!!!

Simply self-defense.

[red-der]

..Simply self-defense..

Best euphemism I ever heard

So....keep some distance folks, or otherwise meno will have to self defend.