GU Playoffs/Tourney

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rhapsody
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GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:32 pm

Okay, time for another one of my ideas - sry, I'm a writer - brainstorming is all I know how to do :P

So me and a few veterans in the league were chatting about maybe getting some sort of tournament set up. This could work a number of ways, on of which is a team playoff with a team that goes on to win the championship - the other, is simply a 2v2 tourney, or drafted teams tourney.

Playoffs:
This is personally the idea that I think would work best for the league - adding something extra to the repitition of matches. The way I see it - the calendar year would start in March, or if soon enough, Oct/Nov. Those two dates would be perfect time for a playoff, as they lie in between both Riker Cups. For example, here is a time line:

March-------------------Summer------------------Oct/Nov---------------Winter
Playoffs ----------------Riker Cup-----------------Playoffs---------------Riker Cup

Each one of the Playoffs would result in a seperate Champion for that "season". Think about the baseball season - All star game is midway through, which leads to Playoffs and World Series. Same idea here. Riker Cup is like the All-Star game, then we have a Championship. For example, lets say Hydra wins ( :lol-old: ) - they would be the champions for those 6 months or so. A website could be made to keep track of the previous winners, brackets, etc.

Arguements
A few opposing views have been mentioned, one of which is the skill set of teams. That is the point of the Playoffs though, to determine the best team - and I can already think of some really good matches that could be played for the Championship (i.e. between Stigma and Rainbow.)

Another thing is how it would be set up: Similar to the NCAA tournament where it is bracketed, and seeded.

For all of you pessimists out there, who cringe at the slightest hint of inginuity - please think about it before you become reluctant. I really think that introducing something like this would add another level to the league, and even more to play for.

Good day,
rhap

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by T-roy » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:33 am

I think this would bring the GU family closer together in Spirit :) ...guys give it a chance.
Thanks
T :D

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by ducatiwannabe » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:29 pm

It's a good idea. Isn't this pretty much like the "seasons" in the Ducati League?

The only thing I'm hesitant about is this "playoffs" deal making it too competive out there. It's already far more competitive than it's ever been, and I fear it would make players hostile.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by slime » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:23 pm

Perhaps I am a pessimist, but the majority of tournaments that have been talked about in the past never make it. Some don't get past the idea phase, some don't ever get established and planned, and others fail after the first few matches. I am not saying your idea won't work, I am just stating what history tells us about bzflag tournaments. The only two tournaments that have actually had success and have been repeated are the Riker Cup and 1vs1 tournament.

The reasons I believe each have worked repeatedly are as follows:
Riker Cup
Administrative involvement (helps with organization)
Highly selective teams (higher chance chosen players will show up for matches)
A very fun couple of matches for observers to watch (popularity)

1vs1 Tournament
Prizes (motivation)
Fame/Glory (a player lasts forever, while teams usually die off)
1st Round, people are placed into groups (helps with timezone differences)

If you want this tournament to be successful, I would suggest incorporating as many of these ideas as possible. Past tournaments have failed because they didn't take some of these important ideas into consideration.

That aside, I'm sure BZB would be happy to play in your tournament, if we are allowed ;).

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:23 pm

@Slime: Yeah, I can recall a few people mentioning that there have been failed tournaments in the past - and the reasons you mention seem valid. I agree the admin support is a must - or at least some one of high stature involved in it.

And of course BZB would be welcome :P - this isnt my tournament - just an idea I came up with for the whole league.

@DW: I dont see how it would make players more hostile - their attitude is their own choosing. Again, if you think of the Playoffs in any sport - its just the part of the year where a winner is choosen. If anything, this shouldnt invoke hostility - but promote very sports-manlike play.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by macsforme » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:00 pm

I think a tournament would be fun... and I think the missing ingredient is usually an organizer (or organizing team) that sees it all the way through to the end. Since rhapsody seems eager to organize this tournament, and since server providers are usually more than willing to help out with stuff, I see no reason why this should not move forward.

I agree that competition has intensified, and it isn't always pleasant; but I don't think a tournament should be avoided for this reason. I do think that the rules should be clear about what is allowed as far as fair gameplay and verbal exclamations/language, etc.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:49 am

As this thread seemed to be lying dormant for a couple days, I thought I would give it an update.

The idea of a Playoffs is really getting me excited. A few ideas have came to me since the OP.

Players
Another arguement for why this would be a good idea, is a lot more players would be involved - or at least, a lot more teams. I think that aspect alone would make people want to get this going, and participate.

Date
Riker's will arrive in less than 3 months (if it remains at the same time it was last year) - so to even things out, the Playoffs would probably need to be soon. Also, if this were to happen - the name "Playoffs" seems pretty generic - could we think of some name similar to Riker's - but fitting for the playoffs?

Organization
I am more than willing to help organize the Playoffs. I'm sure I could come up with a website/bracket/etc. for the Tourney. If this is what is needed, I say - What is holding us back? Let's get this show on the road!

rhap :)

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by dexter » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:18 pm

I'd kinda like a tournament like Doink was doing like a year back or so. 2v2 teams, independent of current GU teams. That'd just make it a little more interesting and give people the opportunity to play with other mates without changing teams. GU teams have a very uneven amount of members, dunno how that is gonna work out. So yea, I think 2 or 3 man team tournament would be awesome. ya?

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gentle giant
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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by gentle giant » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:50 pm

So if this idea ended up happending, how would it effect our regular season with our teams?
My motives from an awesome teacher:

"If life gives you lemons, make lemonade"

"If you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail"

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:22 am

@Dexter:
A previously stated, the Playoffs are a test to see which GU Team is the best for those six months or so. If we wanted a tourney with randomized teams, why not just play a bunch of fm's?

A simple resolution to the "uneven amount of players" problem that you imposed, is (a) to dictate the amount of players allowed to play per team; the team would select certain players to play - or (b) allow any amount of players (2v2,3v3,4v4) depending on whether both teams agree before hand. (a better idea presumably)

In any case, a debate is the last thing needed at the moment - in the end, this game is all about having fun :)

@gg:
After further thought, I'm not sure "seasons" is the best word choice - rather 6 months of matching and working on teamwork, in preperation for the Playoffs.

@Everyone else:
I encourage you all the make a comment on this page expressing your opinions. Admins - your aknowledgment is exigent as well, as we made need to discuss arrangements (hopefully :D)
I really hope this is successful.. :)

rhapsody

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by dexter » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:48 am

Yeah, and you expect everyone to stay on one team for 6 months? I dunno, I thought it'd be fun to do with mixed teams because that way there would be the possibility of just playing some matches with whomever you wanted. Towards your fm suggestion.. fm's don't have the same mentality planned matches do. In response I could say, why not just forget this thread and continue the GU league like it's been going for 4+ years? For me that seems like the best thing to do. :book:

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:11 pm

Who said anything about staying on one team for 6 months? You can switch whenever you feel like it, just like now. The Playoffs is just and event at a certain time to decide to best team. By "The best team for those 6 months", I meant that 6 months would be the time lapse before the next Playoffs.

In response to "Why not just forget this thread and continue the GU League like its been going for 4+ years?":

Well for starters, what is wrong with progression? Is Riker's not an act of change for the benefit of fun? This is all that the Playoffs is supposed to be as well. Maybe I wasnt too clear in my ramblings - but this is just an event like Rikers, only with GU Teams.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by dexter » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:48 pm

"The Playoffs is just and event at a certain time to decide to best team." ..What? You can determine who the best team is (point-wise) by just going here: http://gu.bzleague.com/index.php?link=teams
Have you thought about all the organizing behind having 20 players appear at one day, let alone what it would mean to have multiple teams matching? Currently there are 240 players with a team.. coordinating that is going to be a nightmare. Seeing as you defined this as an event like the Rikers, you're going to be holding it on one day or something? Tbh I just disagree with the idea, so best I let you just figure it out and I'll see what happens.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by ducatiwannabe » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:45 pm

Well, dexter, that's up to you, but I think it may be a good idea after all. Mr. Rhapsody, stick with it.

Reasoning being:

In response to:
"The Playoffs is just and event at a certain time to decide to best team." ..What? You can determine who the best team is (point-wise) by just going here: http://gu.bzleague.com/index.php?link=teams
And the Riker is to determine best players and best team combination for North America and Europe. You could find that out in a number of other ways besides the Riker Tournament too (such as going to http://gu.bzleague.com/index.php?link=teams and making some simple deductions). You could do similarly with the 1vs1 tournament as well, etc. So I guess, I'll give this a chance. It's just at the brainstorming phase.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by Monster » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:10 pm

Anyways, I still like, what dexter suggested earlier :
I'd kinda like a tournament like Doink was doing like a year back or so. 2v2 teams, independent of current GU teams. That'd just make it a little more interesting and give people the opportunity to play with other mates without changing teams

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by ducatiwannabe » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:53 pm

That sounds like a good idea to me.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:46 am

I like the separate 2v2 teams idea, mostly because a lot can change with teams in 6 months, and by the end of the team's championship period, it might not even exist anymore. The ranking system already creates a "champion" team, although in a much slower (and probably more accurate) process.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by hiya » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:22 am

I think a tournament would be a great idea. It would add some excitement to the league. The slow, grinding interminable ranking system that is our current ladder is nice to get a general picture of what the best teams are, but it isn't always accurate, and it isn't very exciting. Some teams field a wider variety of skill and many teams don't match each other very often. This summer while I was active I think I played maybe half a dozen matches against rainbow and 50 matches against bzb, mostly due to timezone differences. At one point we were ahead of rainbow despite having not played them in a month due to a string of victories against bzb, boom and others. At various points team's ratings get inflated simply because they aren't matching the teams that would beat them. I think a tournament would be a blast, diverse teams could field their best lineups, anybody can lose a game, upsets WILL happen and the winning team would get lasting fame as the champion. As it is now, teams move up and down in the ladder and disappear without ever really making their mark. I can say, that on ICF a few years ago me and baron beat the unbeatable sunspots... or whatever that orb/skit/beany team was called... a number of times before they disbanded, and I'm proud of it. The games were a lot of fun and the competition was intense, but there were few onlookers and we obtained no lasting glory. If we made that upset in a tournament it'd mean so much more! I think at this point most of the GU community has enough maturity to handle the competition of a tournament without tearing itself apart... not sure I would've said that 3 years ago ^^.

If I was running it I wouldn't suggest trying to finish it in a day. I'd run it like the various 1v1 tournaments have been run. I'd take just the top 8 teams for time constraints, seed them based on their current rank in the ladder when the tourney starts, line them up in a bracket and give them a week to finish each series. I'd make the tournament single elim, the series best of 3 and let the teams decide how many players to field (if a team only wants to/can only field a 2v2 so be it). The matches may turn into campfests as there's more at stake, but thats fine with me, may the best camper win! I don't think it would be too difficult to get a tournament like this to finish in 3 weeks to a month, though it might be easier to run in the summer when us students have more time. Just my thoughts. I think it would be a lot of fun!

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:43 am

Quantum Tank wrote:I like the separate 2v2 teams idea, mostly because a lot can change with teams in 6 months, and by the end of the team's championship period, it might not even exist anymore. The ranking system already creates a "champion" team, although in a much slower (and probably more accurate) process.
Like I said, the change of teams/players/etc. doesnt mean anything in those 6 months. Someone could create a team the day before the playoffs if they felt like it.

I think that the Playoffs idea would be great, but if it doens't work out - a 2v2 with non-GU teams would be fun as well, and I'm all for it if the Playoffs isn't successful.

@hiya: Exactly my thoughts. Thank you for explaining in detail all of the things that were in my head ^^. You were spot on with the "seeds" and such, and you seem to be passionate about it as well.

Now that you mention Summer having a lot more time (and presumably a better success rate), it seems as though that would be a better option. Although, the main reason I came up with this was to eliminate the lull between Riker Cups.

rhap:)

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by plasma kaz » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:12 am

Didn't doink try to organize something exactly like this a year or so ago? I don't remember perfectly, but I do remember how disappointing it was when no one showed up :( .

Also I have to say it does sound a lot like the ducati league's season system. Despite this from what I have interpreted there are subtle differences that could make or break it.

I've always liked the idea, I was actually really sad when no one came last attempt...

If you are realistically planning on setting it up a mini-website would be needed to show info etc...

and I can't resist but shoot down hiya's idea of single elim..... One game and you're out :p. but I do like the idea of it only lasting a day, that, I think, was the main problem with the past tournaments.
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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by Gabriel G » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:45 pm

Any developments been going on? :P
Use the Search and Edit buttons as your question may have already been answered/posted.

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:48 am

Not at the moment gabe. With Rikers unofficially set for January 2nd, there is really not much need for one in the near future (in my opinion).

Still like the idea a lot, either way (team or non-team), and maybe in march-april when the days are dragging on we can set up something. I'd be happy to organize/help :)

As for right now though, cant wait till Rikers :)

rhap

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Re: GU Playoffs/Tourney

Post by rhapsody » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:21 am

I took the liberty of naming the tourney, and making a website - called it "Alliance Tourney". Set it up for the 2v2 non-team tourney, as I finally decided on. Whether the tourney actually happens or not, the site is prepared :)

EDIT: View the site here: http://gualliancetourney.webs.com/ You'll notice I also took the liberty of giving a date and time, but that was simply an estimate. Could be sooner than that, or later. Or not at all :D.

rhap

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