Fair Play (or lack thereof)

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snick
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Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:56 am

Can you stop trying to take advantage of other tanks' not
playing, tfg? Thanks.

Footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIe9nEx91ew&fmt=22

3 scenes.

1. The first pause. I fire at exactly the same time[1] Rumbler's
pause message appears and Ignition Remix is in the air at that
point. Notice how I don't move forward after firing but stand
still and then even move back a bit. That is, until I see IR
make a second jump. He was clearly playing on after the pause,
whereas I hadn't been. I subsequently continue when I see he
has no intention of stopping. When I fire the second time I am
at a further disadvantage because I had stopped before and now
there is more distance between us. Finally, although it is not
relevant to fair play, notice how IR has a jitter spike during
his first jump, which might account for the calculated hit not
registering. IR does not offer to move back.

2. The game starts. red-der and IR play for about 10 seconds
or so before the first of us even spawns. red-der is more than
halfway to the corner flag by the time I have picked up our own
flag, and Rumbler hasn't even spawned as a red player at that
point. Despite this, neither offers to move back.

3. In this scene I am mostly drifting, with my hand off the
mouse as I check the lagstats and type "one second please".
Checking the lagstats involves typing O, enabling the console,
which I don't normally have showing, and switching it to "all message"
mode (I normally only have chat showing). I do quickly grab the
mouse and try to avoid some of his shots while doing this, but
it would be pretty obvious to any skilled player I'm making no
serious attempt to defend the flag or actively engage in battle.
Unfortunately I accidentally hit M rather than N when typing
"pause please", so red-der didn't see the message. But even after
being informed that I hadn't been playing, he refused to go back.
Btw: he wouldn't even have been close enough to shoot at me if
he hadn't played for 10 seconds before I had spawned.

[1] Note: you are seeing the server view here. The pause message
takes a little time to move from the server to the player.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by macsforme » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:30 pm

All of these issues could be taken care of by a little bit of give-and-take from both sides. If there is confusion about gameplay or someone doesn't see a message, work it out with them and be willing to try to see things from their perspective. You can't expect people to guess that you are not devoting full attention to the game unless you explicitly state it. Sometimes a player is focusing on other things aside from what the opponents are doing (especially if the scoreboard is hidden and/or they are on the other side of the map).

Additionally, people are frequently frustrated when they say "pause" and people continue playing. Personally I often ignore chat if I'm right in the middle of a fight with someone, although I will notice a server pause message. This could be solved by using a quick-key to pause instantly, rather than asking for it and waiting for players to react and for someone to actually pause the game.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:50 pm

Constitution wrote:All of these issues could be taken care of by a little bit of give-and-take from both sides. If there is confusion about gameplay or someone doesn't see a message, work it out with them and be willing to try to see things from their perspective. You can't expect people to guess that you are not devoting full attention to the game unless you explicitly state it. Sometimes a player is focusing on other things aside from what the opponents are doing (especially if the scoreboard is hidden and/or they are on the other side of the map).

Additionally, people are frequently frustrated when they say "pause" and people continue playing. Personally I often ignore chat if I'm right in the middle of a fight with someone, although I will notice a server pause message. This could be solved by using a quick-key to pause instantly, rather than asking for it and waiting for players to react and for someone to actually pause the game.
Yes, that is good advice. The problem here was not so much the playing on itself, but
the fact they wouldn't agree to go back after it had been made clear to them that the
opposition wasn't playing. And also, that this happened 3 times within ten minutes. I
too have played on during a pause not noticing it, but I nearly always agree to go back
instantly when asked to do so, without any arguing whatsoever. The only case where I
don't generally agree is if the other player has advanced and does not agree to go back
also.

To my mind the rule is: upon resumption after a pause, the positions should be as close
as is possible to those at that the moment of pausing. There are some obvious difficulties
here, which would be interesting to discuss. For example, if a tank is in the air it cannot
stop moving. The aim then should be to stop upon landing, and not, e.g., jump again. A
more sophisticated approach would be to allow all moving players to continue until the
last tank in the air lands, and not allow jumping after landing.

What is completely unacceptable in my view is considering any advantage gained while
another player is not playing as fair. The whole point of the game is to have two teams
that are *both* playing and contesting the result.

I think it's interesting to note that this sort of controversy does arise in other sports too
( bzflag = a sport :-) ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGpV5aK-WHs

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by blast » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:48 pm

With 3.0.0, it should be possible to disable movement/shooting via a server message. I don't believe it is currently exposed via the API, nor am I sure if that functionality is actively used elsewhere (might just be set up to allow everything upon a spawn), but it is something that could be exposed and used. This would basically turn off players' input controls - so if they were jumping, they will continue on that path until they land.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:44 pm

In that first situation it looks as though IR acted correctly, while you, who kept shooting at him, were out of line. If someone shoots at a tank, that tank should dodge, regardless of whether the game is paused or not. You should have let him stay instead of continuing to shoot at him, if the game was paused.

If the game wasn't paused he would've kept dodging and may or may not have survived. If jumping/etc. was locked, he would have died 100%. I don't think this is a case of IR "abusing" the pause, but more a case of you whining that you didn't get a kill. ;)
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:19 pm

me1 wrote:In that first situation it looks as though IR acted correctly, while you, who kept shooting at him, were out of line. If someone shoots at a tank, that tank should dodge, regardless of whether the game is paused or not.
He didn't dodge. He jumped. Which means a further 3.878 seconds of movement.

It's not really reasonable for one player to be allowed to move for several seconds
whilst the other does nothing, when that movement was begun *after* the pause.

And it's not whining about not getting a kill. I would have been quite happy if he
had agreed to return to the landing position alive.
Last edited by snick on Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Bambino » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:31 pm

Personally, I am very focused on the game and don't have my chat console up so I miss 90% of the pause messages.

There is a plugin that can stop all shooting, jumping, and driving via a /pause command. I would recommend taking a look at it. I don't know how stable it is or if it needs some tweaking before it gets near a league server, but it's worth a peak.

I'm sure it would prevents these problems from happening in the future.

The plugin: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=8129
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:34 pm

Bambino wrote:Personally, I am very focused on the game and don't have my chat console up so I miss 90% of the pause messages.

There is a plugin that can stop all shooting, jumping, and driving via a /pause command. I would recommend taking a look at it. I don't know how stable it is or if it needs some tweaking before it gets near a league server, but it's worth a peak.

I'm sure it would prevents these problems from happening in the future.

The plugin: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=8129
That looks interesting. I wonder if someone could set up a test match server to try it out.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:56 pm

snick wrote:And it's not whining about not getting a kill. I would have been quite happy if he
had agreed to return to the landing position alive.
I'd believe you if you didn't continue to shoot at him. You also kept shooting far after the pause.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:17 pm

me1 wrote:
snick wrote:And it's not whining about not getting a kill. I would have been quite happy if he
had agreed to return to the landing position alive.
I'd believe you if you didn't continue to shoot at him. You also kept shooting far after the pause.
I stopped on two occasions after the pause and I was the only player to stop first.

How does that make the fault mine?

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:39 pm

You stopped. Then you shot again. Then you stopped again?
That's like saying "oh, I stopped smoking twice last week." ;)
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Ignition ReMiX » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:34 am

Please read and Snick, please respond, and I'll respond back.

Snick, you are out of line. You call me unsportsmanlike like when all signs point to you being a poor sport. You accusing me of lag-cheating, pause-cheating, whatever cheating is crazy and unfair. And you think I never check these forums, and I don't, but I happened to get my first message in my inbox in 2 years, so look I can defend myself.

In my situation (point 1), I did not do anything wrong. I'm glad you had the replay. You missed. If it was a kill, you should have killed me. You own teammate said pause, so when I saw it, I was wondering why you were still shooting at me, so I typed random text, but you kept shooting. Naturally, I'd try to avoid death, so of course I would try to jump. And you missed. Snick, you are rusty, you missed a easy kill, leave it at that, it happens to the best of us.

But what really pissed me off is how you kept trying to kill me when I could have easily killed you and you accuse me of pause cheating. Watch the replay - like I said during the altercation - the last jump onto the block, I didn't have to make that jump. You clearly missed me with all three early shots before I jumped, so I could have turned and shot you. I thought this, but I also knew we were on pause, so I jumped up giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see the pause. You shot on pause, I didn't. I respected the pause and did not kill you. But you just accuse me of cheating and now lag cheating. Wow.

I'm not going to give you a free kill, because your teammate had to answer the phone. An easy way to bypass this problem is to teach your teammate to pause at a more appropriate time. Like me1 said, you are just whining.

Point 2 is even more whining. I can't believe this. LUDACRIS! YOU STARTED THE SECOND COUNTDOWN. You came back after you ran away, and you didn't even ask if we were ready. And you are crying about you guys not spawning, not being ready when you started the match. Also, you lie, because you never asked us to move back for starting early. And ask any GU player, the first few second difference in spawn is no big deal, but you are obviously trying to make a big deal of everything. Red-der and I was just playing the game, and to tell you the truth, I needed to take a piss, but I couldn't because you started the match.

Last Point (3). Red-der and I were just playing the game. We did not see any pause requests, so we were fighting. You can't seriously expect us to watch to see if other tanks are stopped, because we are in the heat of the moment. And what can we expect if you move your flag to the corner, your tank is not working? Also, sometimes, I don't move and sit and wait. Like you said, you made a mistake, you are rusty, so you should deal with it. We did nothing wrong. And then the first thing you said to us was "go back" or something like that. We did not know why and just thought it was you crying again, because you lost the flag. How did we know you aren't just making an excuse, because you messed up and Red got lucky? Two pauses in 2 minutes? And comon, you were dodging right before Red killed you according to the video. We are not mind readers. And if you might have been not a complete jerk, we might have given it to you. But if you are going to threaten to "#$%# break my nose", I could care less why you cry.

And btw, why don't you have the video of you threatening to "#$%$ break my nose." I'm sure people would enjoy that more than your crying. I am unsportsmanlike? I don't think so. I did nothing wrong. You are the one who ran off.

I live at 2623 Valley View Drive, Lancaster PA, and I'll be here all summer, so come break my nose.

And to think I used to respect you. You're a jerk man.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Bullet Catcher » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:20 am

It is on my list to have the client play a sound when a countdown is paused. I am thinking of a double ding (as in a boxing match). I think this will help a lot to get players to notice a pause in a timely manner.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by red-der » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:53 am

I thought that "special player" just had a bad day and I was willing to just forget about it ...
But seems I should add a few things.

First situation, quite obvious.
If a teammate asks for a pause you should give the other team a little credit. You destroy their flow. You cant expect that in such a situation the other players freeze in less than a second - and not move anymore - especially if you ask for pause while a player is in the air. And if you watch the video, snick is shooting after ! king asks for a pause but complains about Ignitions moving. Take in consideration that the normal reaction time is -more or less - 1 second.

The second situation form my view:
I drive towards the other corner, and as long as I am out of reach, I dont watch what snick is doing, I adjust some things like brightness, mouseboxsize,... That got me killed multiple times, but I never complained about it, because its my fault.
:arrow:
Snick was moving, and he didnt said that he needs a pause. Later he told me that he "cant type /countdown pause that fast" and "isnt able to set this on a quickkey".
Really?
You play official matches for more than 5 years!
You like to share the info that you found some bugs in the code, making you nearly unhittable if you want ..... but you dont get a quickkey working?

So he expects that if he doesnt move, I just dont kill him? Or if he moves into a bullet because he dodged not good enough its my fault? We then should stop, go back and he tries to dodge again?
Does that mean I can take my hand from the mouse if I get attacked by 2 and just say: Sorry folks, I had my hand not on the mouse. Go back we start new?
Or maybe a new strategy to defend : I hold the flag and just dont move, so you are not allowed to kill me! If you do, we start new!

--------

Maybe snick forget to add some important things here:
Both situations happend in the first minute. No caps happend, no harm done.

In the first match, he just run away after he didnt got what he wanted: Ignition right in front of him, for a free kill.
He let king, me, and Ignition on the server, waiting........ for a longer time.

After we agreed to start a new match, and that second situation in the corner happend, he run away again from the match and refused to continue. Same as before.

But the story doesnt end here:
In observer, he got really angry, threatend to kill / hurt Ignition and behaved in such an verbally abusive way ..... you can watch it on replay, I cant post it here.
THATS bad sportmanship, unsocial behavior and just unfair. You ruined 2 matches, for tfg and your teammate
(some credit here to king for staying cool :D
...
I havent seen such an absurd and hypocritical behavior in a player for a long time: Watching the replay multiple times, all other players tell you that you are wrong and you make a video from it and start a rant here? That made it really on top of my "never ever match this player again list".
:rip:


But i want to close this with some productive advices:

# If you have to pause, do it in a calm situation.
# If it isnt possible, give the other team/ players some credit, you destroy their flow, you take advantage from that pause.
# If the other team has a little benefit from that situation, take it like a man - you / your teammate needed the pause, its not their fault.
# If you need a pause, ask for it - and make a /countdown pause. Give a short info why and how long.

----

# If you didnt ask for a pause, didnt waited for a good pausing situation or if you did it wrong (like asking for pause only in teamchat) ... just dont complain.
# If you see in replay that it was both times your own fault .... just dont complain, appology for it. To your teammate and to the other team.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:22 am

me1 wrote:You stopped. Then you shot again. Then you stopped again?
That's like saying "oh, I stopped smoking twice last week." ;)
No, it's nothing like that. But thanks for the feeble attempt at humour.
Ignition ReMiX wrote: Snick, you are out of line. You call me unsportsmanlike like when all signs point to you being a poor sport. You accusing me of lag-cheating, pause-cheating, whatever cheating is crazy and unfair.
You did have a jitter spike. The evidence is in the video. But what you
have just written is a complete lie and you know it. Show me one piece
of proof that I accused you of "lag-cheating".
In my situation (point 1), I did not do anything wrong. I'm glad you had the replay. You missed. If it was a kill, you should have killed me.
I didn't claim it was a kill, although it was shown as a calculated hit. You
can see that, too --> upper right hand corner in the video.
You own teammate said pause, so when I saw it, I was wondering why you were still shooting at me, so I typed random text, but you kept shooting. Naturally, I'd try to avoid death, so of course I would try to jump. And you missed.
And despite that fact that I had missed by a mile (final shot) you chose to play
on and jump onto a block.
But what really pissed me off is how you kept trying to kill me when I could have easily killed you and you accuse me of pause cheating. Watch the replay - like I said during the altercation - the last jump onto the block, I didn't have to make that jump.
Indeed. So why did you? Why didn't you just stop there and then.
You clearly missed me with all three early shots before I jumped, so I could have turned and shot you.
You could have shot at me. It's very unlikely you would have shot me.
You're not a very good player. But that's irrelevant. This is not about
who should or would have been shot. It's about going back. What I was
hoping - and this is the point you are evidently missing - is that we
would both move back to positions nearer the pause position. But you
didn't want that.
Also, you lie, because you never asked us to move back for starting early.
I never claimed that I asked you to move back. What I said is that you didn't
offer to move back. Were I in the same position as you were, I would have
moved back or paused and allowed the other team to catch up. I have done
that lots of times before, as you can verify for yourself by searching through
the replays. So I'm not advocating something I wouldn't be prepared to do
myself were our situations reversed.
And ask any GU player, the first few second difference in spawn is no big deal, but you are obviously trying to make a big deal of everything. Red-der and I was just playing the game, and to tell you the truth, I needed to take a piss, but I couldn't because you started the match.
You only had to ask and I would have paused.
Last Point (3). Red-der and I were just playing the game. We did not see any pause requests, so we were fighting. You can't seriously expect us to watch to see if other tanks are stopped, because we are in the heat of the moment. And what can we expect if you move your flag to the corner, your tank is not working?
That's irrelevant. It doesn't address the issue of why red-der wouldn't go back.
That is the important issue. Everything else is a complete red herring.

If he didn't notice I wasn't playing, that's not a problem. We both go back and
everything's fine. But no, he wouldn't accept that. That is the problem.
How did we know you aren't just making an excuse, because you messed up and Red got lucky? Two pauses in 2 minutes?
Rumbler offered to prove it to you by showing you a screenshot of my pause request.
red-der wouldn't accept that proof.
And if you might have been not a complete jerk
As someone who has worked with hardened criminals in the past (community placement
scheme), you're not impressing me. But do spout off if it makes you feel tough.
red-der wrote: Later he told me that he "cant type /countdown pause that fast" and "isnt able to set this on a quickkey".
Really?
You play official matches for more than 5 years!
You like to share the info that you found some bugs in the code, making you nearly unhittable if you want . but you dont get a quickkey working?
It's not been a priority for me. I don't pause very often.
So he expects that if he doesnt move, I just dont kill him? Or if he moves into a bullet because he dodged not good enough its my fault? We then should stop, go back and he tries to dodge again?
As has been explained, we had proof that I had asked for a pause. But it seems you
will not accept that. What I was doing was (a) trying to check my lagstats because I
was being lagwarned (b) type messages (c) quickly grab the mouse and make a minimal
last moment movement before resuming doing (a) and (b). I wasn't playing properly
and didn't once fire back - any good player would have noticed that this was unusual.
Furthermore, though I doubt you will believe this , I wanted to pause for your benefit.
If I have >400ms lag, as I was being warned I had, it benefits me more than you, so playing
on rather than pausing would be the cynical thing to do.
Maybe snick forget to add some important things here:
Both situations happend in the first minute. No caps happend, no harm done.
The harm done is to the principle of "fair play". I know the principle is completely
foreign to certain minds.
In the first match, he just run away
I left after it was clear you were not interested in fair play. It's something I believe
in. Clearly you do not. So I will not match you again.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by miro » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:38 pm

I agree 100 % with Ignition and red , they already said all and you cant blame my mates just for your fails
snick wrote:Can you stop trying to take advantage of other tanks' not
playing, tfg? Thanks.
I find very ridicolous that a player who is in the ban section of gu league for cheat accusing and , recently for lang comes here and give us lessons of fair play. you wanna act like a fair player? ok but do not post it on the official forum please.

If everytime i had a problem with the team arkhè , called coolplay in the past that forum would be full of my posts :roll:

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Ignition ReMiX » Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:08 pm

snick wrote: You did have a jitter spike. The evidence is in the video. But what you
have just written is a complete lie and you know it. Show me one piece
of proof that I accused you of "lag-cheating".
What great evidence a three frame per second YouTube video serves as. You are just crying, because you missed when you tried to kill me on pause.
snick wrote: And despite that fact that I had missed by a mile (final shot) you chose to play
on and jump onto a block.
What a terrible response. What am I supposed to do? Let you kill me? And I stopped playing by jumping up, because you obviously wanted a free kill.
snick wrote: Indeed. So why did you? Why didn't you just stop there and then.
Why would I stop if you are shooting at me? I don't understand.
snick wrote: You could have shot at me. It's very unlikely you would have shot me.
You're not a very good player. But that's irrelevant. This is not about
who should or would have been shot. It's about going back. What I was
hoping - and this is the point you are evidently missing - is that we
would both move back to positions nearer the pause position. But you
didn't want that.
The point here is not about me going down. Why would I go down with you standing right under me at the block? You told me I was in "midair," so should I just jump up and give you a free kill? That is what you implied. I would have come down if you moved away. And I admit, I'm not as good as you, but the point here is that you are rusty, you suck, you missed an easy kill, and you felt like crying and finding an excuse to gain the upper hand.
snick wrote: I never claimed that I asked you to move back. What I said is that you didn't
offer to move back. Were I in the same position as you were, I would have
moved back or paused and allowed the other team to catch up. I have done
that lots of times before, as you can verify for yourself by searching through
the replays. So I'm not advocating something I wouldn't be prepared to do
myself were our situations reversed.
Okay, I assumed that you meant we didn't offer to move back after you ask, because I have never seen anyone move back if there is a few second difference in spawns. And it doesn't change the fact that YOU STARTED THE MATCH on your terms, timing, and will, and it's hilarious how you continue crying, because you weren't ready. "I'm coming out of hiding to surprise them, and oh no, I'm not ready".
snick wrote: That's irrelevant. It doesn't address the issue of why red-der wouldn't go back.
That is the important issue. Everything else is a complete red herring.

If he didn't notice I wasn't playing, that's not a problem. We both go back and
everything's fine. But no, he wouldn't accept that. That is the problem.
Oh the irony of the whole thing is that you were playing. Watch the video yourself, I see you moving. Everything is not fine if we both go back, because you get a free flag. And in the heat of the moment, we could honestly care less what happened to you, because it was just more whining from you. You made a mistake.
snick wrote: Rumbler offered to prove it to you by showing you a screenshot of my pause request.
red-der wouldn't accept that proof.
You didn't make a pause request to us. Sorry. I would never say, "you killed me, but I had bad lag/jit, so it doesn't count". That is what you told us.
snick wrote: As someone who has worked with hardened criminals in the past (community placement
scheme), you're not impressing me. But do spout off if it makes you feel tough.
Huh? lol, say what? As someone who worked in restaurants in the past, it surprises me that your attitude and logic stinks more than any of the garbage I ever had to take out. That's my snick-esqe response.
snick wrote: The harm done is to the principle of "fair play". I know the principle is completely
foreign to certain minds.
Cries. Cries. Cries. We're the friendly guys, we don't really care about winning, just having fun and playing within the rules. Haha, fair play being "foreign to certain minds". It sounds like you are a little boy being bullied on the playground.


Snick move on, it's just a game. Stop ranting about something that was your fault.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Ignition ReMiX » Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:10 pm

Ignition ReMiX wrote:
snick wrote: You did have a jitter spike. The evidence is in the video. But what you
have just written is a complete lie and you know it. Show me one piece
of proof that I accused you of "lag-cheating".
What great evidence a three frame per second YouTube video serves as. You are just crying, because you missed when you tried to kill me on pause.
snick wrote: And despite that fact that I had missed by a mile (final shot) you chose to play
on and jump onto a block.
What a terrible response. What am I supposed to do? Let you kill me? And I stopped playing by jumping up, because you obviously wanted a free kill.
snick wrote: Indeed. So why did you? Why didn't you just stop there and then.
Why would I stop if you are shooting at me? I don't understand.
snick wrote: You could have shot at me. It's very unlikely you would have shot me.
You're not a very good player. But that's irrelevant. This is not about
who should or would have been shot. It's about going back. What I was
hoping - and this is the point you are evidently missing - is that we
would both move back to positions nearer the pause position. But you
didn't want that.
The point here is not about me going down. Why would I go down with you standing right under me at the block? You told me I was in "midair," so should I just jump up and give you a free kill? That is what you implied. I would have come down if you moved away. And I admit, I'm not as good as you, but the point here is that you are rusty, you suck, you missed an easy kill, and you felt like crying and finding an excuse to gain the upper hand.
snick wrote: I never claimed that I asked you to move back. What I said is that you didn't
offer to move back. Were I in the same position as you were, I would have
moved back or paused and allowed the other team to catch up. I have done
that lots of times before, as you can verify for yourself by searching through
the replays. So I'm not advocating something I wouldn't be prepared to do
myself were our situations reversed.
Okay, I assumed that you meant we didn't offer to move back after you ask, because I have never seen anyone move back if there is a few second difference in spawns. And it doesn't change the fact that YOU STARTED THE MATCH on your terms, timing, and will, and it's hilarious how you continue crying, because you weren't ready. "I'm coming out of my inner Anne Frank to surprise them, and oh no, I'm not ready".
snick wrote: That's irrelevant. It doesn't address the issue of why red-der wouldn't go back.
That is the important issue. Everything else is a complete red herring.

If he didn't notice I wasn't playing, that's not a problem. We both go back and
everything's fine. But no, he wouldn't accept that. That is the problem.
Oh the irony of the whole thing is that you were playing. Watch the video yourself, I see you moving. Everything is not fine if we both go back, because you get a free flag. And in the heat of the moment, we could honestly care less what happened to you, because it was just more whining from you. You made a mistake.
snick wrote: Rumbler offered to prove it to you by showing you a screenshot of my pause request.
red-der wouldn't accept that proof.
You didn't make a pause request to us. Sorry. I would never say, "you killed me, but I had bad lag/jit, so it doesn't count". That is what you told us.
snick wrote: As someone who has worked with hardened criminals in the past (community placement
scheme), you're not impressing me. But do spout off if it makes you feel tough.
Huh? lol, say what? As someone who worked in restaurants in the past, it surprises me that your attitude and logic stinks more than any of the garbage I ever had to take out. That's my snick-esqe response.
snick wrote: The harm done is to the principle of "fair play". I know the principle is completely
foreign to certain minds.
Cries. Cries. Cries. We're the friendly guys, we don't really care about winning, just having fun and playing within the rules. Haha, fair play being "foreign to certain minds". It sounds like you are a little boy being bullied on the playground.


Snick move on, it's just a game. Stop ranting about something that was your fault.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:43 pm

Ignition ReMiX wrote:
snick wrote: You did have a jitter spike. The evidence is in the video. But what you
have just written is a complete lie and you know it. Show me one piece
of proof that I accused you of "lag-cheating".
What great evidence a three frame per second YouTube video serves as.
If you actually looked at the video, if you actually used your eyes,
you'd see a green line in the mousebox. Have a guess what that is ;--)

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by red-der » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:05 pm

If you actually looked at the video, if you actually used your eyes,
you'd see a green line in the mousebox. Have a guess what that is
I guess its a modded client with some extras ....
....do you use this one normally in official matches or only if you wanna prove something?

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Bambino » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:35 pm

Sure looks like a modded client. I don't think that those patches have been explicitly allowed by the GU League Admins.

What is that green line for?
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by blast » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Oooo, are we playing the guessing game? Okay, okay... um.. is it a polygraph?? A suckometer? Umm... seismograph?
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:47 pm

It's his fairness meter. The more it bounces the less fair it is. When it spiked it was ÜBER UNFAIR.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by snick » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:05 pm

There's a big hint in the video. It's about as obvious as the very prominent
and unusual green line that some seem to have overlooked.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:12 pm

snick wrote:There's a big hint in the video. It's about as obvious as the very prominent
and unusual green line that some seem to have overlooked.
It obviously isn't obvious, so why don't you stop being a smart--- and explain what you claim is happening?

Also, that line cannot represent lag, as you are watching a replay. Replays do not record lag.
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