Fair Play (or lack thereof)

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macsforme
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by macsforme » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:57 pm

snick wrote:It's not really reasonable for one player to be allowed to move for several seconds
whilst the other does nothing, when that movement was begun *after* the pause.
I think it's fair to assume that IR did not see the server pause message at all before making the first jump. On the replay (server's perspective), the server pause message and IR's jump happen almost simultaneously. Add in a tenth of a second of lag or so (plus player reaction time), and I don't think he could have possibly seen it before jumping. Snick's second round of shots was clearly after the pause... in which case I would have assumed that he did not see the pause either, and keep dodging/jumping until I was able to get his attention.

In short, emotions are obviously very high right now, which usually clouds judgement. I personally think there were severe overreactions during the game too. Sometimes you will not be able to see eye-to-eye with others, but if you're willing to yield a little bit usually you can avoid the situation deteriorating into the hostile encounter we had. And when it comes down to it, the rules forbid certain extremes (like cursing at other players), so if you commit those offenses you will have to deal with the consequences.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by smoooth » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:30 pm

I haven't really looked at any of the "evidence" here but I have a great solution to solve this problem.

Let's make a rule that which ever team pauses during a match must self kill before restart. Problem solved. This will detour teams from using pauses. I see this type of problem from pausing occur all the time. So let's punish the team that has to pause because I think it's unfair to the other team.

This will make a player think twice before he hits the pause button.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:59 pm

This will make a player think twice before he hits the pause button.
What if the player needs to leave, but only for a few minutes? (ie, important phone call, explosion outside, other important thing out of their control)?

It seems silly to "punish" someone for something out of their control. I liked the idea of making the pause more obvious, perhaps via sound, so there is less confusion as to when there is a pause.


Honestly, the only problem here is the one snick wants to exist. It's not as big a deal as people make it seem.
A player pauses? Pause the match. move back to where you were before the pause. resume the match. done deal.

Not: player pauses, game pauses, other team complains, player decides that he is the only force of justice in this cold world and shoots clearly after a pause and then complains that the player he shot at moved "unfairly during a pause."
The other two situations are pretty non-issue things aswell.
You agree to start a match, and then you wait to spawn. Too bad. You didn't tell anyone to wait, it's not their business when you spawn.
You don't pause, and you try to play with chat when you are being attacked. Again, 110% your fault. It's not the other team's business to look at "how your tank moves" or smart for them to assume you are idle.

Honestly, this thread shouldn't be looked at seriously, it's a sore loser scapegoating other players and whining. I doubt he started this thread to do something useful like implement a pause sound as one person helpfully suggested.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by smoooth » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:55 pm

Pauses hurt game play, plain and simple. Typically the ones who get hurt the most of the opposing team of the ones who called the "pause." There should be punishment for making a pause -- a double team self kill. Answering the phone is not a legitimate reason to pause. There should ideally be no interruptions in a match. The only way to keep people from pausing whenever they feel like it, is to punish that team -- and I propose doing that my making a rule to have the team that paused self-kill.

I guarantee you will see less pauses this way and it will make people who need to "pee" in the middle of a match, use the bathroom before they start a match.

If there is an explosion outside, you can always pause with the self-kill -- But I can imagine there won't be many explosions, and further more, if there are explosions outside, you should seriously be worried about that and not the bzflag match.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by khazhyk » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:24 am

I'm not talking about people who abuse pause. If people abuse pause, they should ideally be dealt separately from normal players. There shouldn't need to be something like a team-self-kill to motivate people to pause as little as possible.

It' seems rather single minded to say the "only way to keep people from pausing whenever they feel like it" is to force them to sk. If a player or team abuses pause they should be dealt with like any other abuse case, ie cheating, verbal abuse, distracting, etc.

If someone pauses to pee during a match, make as many caps as you can while they are gone, because that's just ridiculous. ;)

I personally don't like carpet-style rules like making all pausers sk always, (not to mention I have no doubts people would protest to rules like that). Perhaps set some standard rules for what is acceptable for a pause and what is not? It may be a good way to prevent future drama. Perhaps a new thread should be made to follow through with creating pause-rules?
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by smoooth » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:00 pm

The problem, Me1, is its not easy to identify what is considered "abusing" pause. 1 pause could be abuse if the player does it at the right time. Likewise you can't "allow" certain things like "peeing" because players will "say" they are going pee. The only way is to impose a selfkill. There has to be punishment such that the behavior is discouraged. There are no realistic way to apply "common sense" to a pause that is why there needs to be a zero tolerance. Policy.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Quantum Tank » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:38 am

I agree that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion, and that both snick and Ignition Remix could have been more mature in this discussion (I am looking at unrelated comments about skill and general name calling)... but I thank you both for providing one of the more exciting things to happen on this forum in a long time :D

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by lucky luke » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:23 am

I agree that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion, and that both snick and Ignition Remix could have been more mature in this discussion (I am looking at unrelated comments about skill and general name calling)... but I thank you both for providing one of the more exciting things to happen on this forum in a long time
thumbs up! ;)

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by nostromo » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:32 pm

This is a very entertaining thread!

;-)

I took some time to watch the replays of both matches, and nothing the player snick complains about is - objectivly watched - true. I think its all said in some postings above. He blames the other team for things he / his team is accountable.

Even worse, the complainings and bad behavior that is showed in the replay (but not in his footage) - and got him eventually banned in GU-League. I checked and the other team (tfg) seemed nice enough not to report these both forfeits (if you run away in a match and refuse to play on, I assume it is a forfeit). And he complains about bad sportmanship? Thats an interesting point of view.

Beside that,
I still would like to know what kind of detector that is in snicks client. What does it do? How does it work? Is it allowed?
Would be nice if you could share some infos about that, snick.

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by nostromo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:35 am

"... The video is / was removed by the owner ..."

Can you upload it again?
Its a senseless thing to start a discussion here and if all the people disagree with your view, you delete the evidence.

Beside that, I assume you wont tell us what kind of "magic detector" that is / was in your bzflag client.?

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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Grace F » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:29 am

I think this conversation is over. This conversation really wasn't going to go in any other direction than the one it did, so I'm sure he took it down accordingly. :)
Last edited by Grace F on Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fair Play (or lack thereof)

Post by Jacko H » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:41 pm

My opinion:
you got to give red and ir a brake they wanted to play. You were pausing making it hard. Like when u go for flag and u do team talk u can't blame them for not stopping and then not going back after u say that u make a mistake.
Sooooooo carm down. What was it one cap in a computer game that shows a number in a bzflag website?

Mmmmm stay wako 8-)
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