GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

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quantum dot
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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by quantum dot » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:46 pm

smoooth wrote:There is nothing preventing two teams from playing a 20 minute match currently. If both teams agree to play 20 minutes they can just /gameover when 10 minutes left and report the match. As long as they both agree on a 20 minute match they can stop it and report. There is no reason to adjust the /timelimit command unless the match length EXCEEDS 30 minutes. This poll/concept is basically pointless -- teams can play as short as they want as long as it is less then 30 minutes.
I think one better ignores this comment all together for two reasons:

1) it is against the rules (yes, those rules that smooth wants rewritten to cover every single aspect of the game, why to recommend breaking them if you want them perfected.)

2) I have seen many many games decided with one cap right on the clock. It would be really fun to see how this will be handled with your suggestion.

Anyway ...
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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by dvb » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:44 pm

quantum dot wrote:The poll is only indicative, not determinant. The main intention of the poll was to know what the feeling was about this issue. In my opinion nothing of this magnitude should be changed by a close voting. Also, the opinions and ideas to improve the current time limit system are perhaps more useful for us than the mere vote count.
ducatiwannabe wrote:As quantum dot said, this is not going to determine the outcome simply by the numbers in this poll. This is indicative, in other words, we are getting the opinion of our league players nothing will be set and stone just because of this poll.
yea i was expecting this.. afterall admins will be the ones to decide. srsrly thanks for wasting my time in this poll. match lenght will never be changed because admins don't want to. funny is that some of those voting 30mins dont really give any of their time to GU league. maybe they need 1hour matches to become more active. if activity isn't a thing that bothers you, ok. nty. who agrees just follow

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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by smoooth » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:14 am

What I am hearing is that if a match is at the 29th minute and a team is down 10-0 and the losing team types /gameover then the match can not be reported because 30 minutes haven't been played. I know several matches when this has happened. As such those wins should be removed. My point in this conversation is to point out why the rules are so poorly written and pretty much anything goes in league play. All the admins may "believe" everyone is following these "unwritten" rules in gu land but in reality there are all types of miscellaneous intrepretation of the rules going on.

I am not recommending breaking the rules because nothing I have said IS breaking the rules. The rules are unclear. That's why I have been pushing the rules to be better written.

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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by smoooth » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:20 am

funny is that some of those voting 30mins dont really give any of their time to GU league. maybe they need 1hour matches to become more active. if activity isn't a thing that bothers you, ok. nty. who agrees just follow
Well said izkull. I've also often complained that ANYONE can vote even people that don't really even play GU league. In each year there should be a recorded number of hours logged in official matches per player and those players with the most matches get the proportional vote for all GU matters.

Concept: People who play GU league the most get the most say.

Possible Solution: Measure yearly hours logged in official matches per person. A player with 1 match has 1/10 less voting power than someone who plays 10 matches a year, and so on and so forth up to a certain percentage.

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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by Upsetter » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:06 am

I dont think votes of active players should count more than votes from inactive players. Every registered GU player who is on the spawnlist could have voted here. And every vote should have the same weight. Imagine you are a player who is inactive due to limited time. Now there is a poll about shortening the match length. And you think nice, maybe i could find the time to play 1 or 2 matches a week with this. Remember, not only the match length would be shorter, also the waiting time until a team finishes a match is shorter. But you state your vote and then you will notice your vote is only worth 1/10 of others? Well, does that sound positive or motivating to you? I dont think so.

When I started the thread in the admin forums which resulted in this poll, my motivation was not only to have a change for the active players. No, it was motivated by the wish to get some inactive players back and also to attract new players which the league most lacks of. In 2010 we've added ~50 new players to the spawnlist. How many of them are playing actively? A half? A third? No, less than 10.

I have to admit I didnt expect that inactive players would vote to keep 30 mins but as this is their oppinion we have to accept it and count them with the same weight as all other votes.


Sadly, smoooth, you didnt even vote. You just do what you always do: turning every thread into your favourite topic...

And Cobra_Fast: I am not sure why your last statements regarding the league or the admin staff are so full of frustration and bitterness. Really, your last post couldnt be more wrong.

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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by quantum dot » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:01 am

smoooth wrote:
funny is that some of those voting 30mins dont really give any of their time to GU league. maybe they need 1hour matches to become more active. if activity isn't a thing that bothers you, ok. nty. who agrees just follow
Well said izkull. I've also often complained that ANYONE can vote even people that don't really even play GU league. In each year there should be a recorded number of hours logged in official matches per player and those players with the most matches get the proportional vote for all GU matters.

Concept: People who play GU league the most get the most say.

Possible Solution: Measure yearly hours logged in official matches per person. A player with 1 match has 1/10 less voting power than someone who plays 10 matches a year, and so on and so forth up to a certain percentage.
You are very welcome to contribute to the effort and try to fix what you think should be fixed. You want the rules better written, then you can re-write them and make a proposal. You want to measure hours played per player, write the code. And so on, I think you may get the idea ... But keep in mind that, as with many activities and work admins/devs/coders do, it may happen that your proposals are not accepted in part or in full. This happens every time in the inner workings of our team. Someone makes the effort and others edit it, advance it, improve it, or simply reject it from the start. And we got to be ready for it, it is part of collaborative work.
Last edited by quantum dot on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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quantum dot
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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by quantum dot » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:07 am

smoooth wrote:What I am hearing is that if a match is at the 29th minute and a team is down 10-0 and the losing team types /gameover then the match can not be reported because 30 minutes haven't been played.
No, that is not what has been said. As usual. You just need to read what you wrote and what I replied. You proposed to do /gameover at 20 min and I explained precisely and concisely why this is a bad idea. If the trailing team decides the game is over, it is over. No matter if there are 20 min left on the clock or 10min. Any team can withdraw at any time, can't they? But that is different from typing /gameover at 20 min because of the two points I made in my post. This should be clear enough to anyone (I sometimes feel like discussing with you is like "preaching in the desert").
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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by smoooth » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:01 am

If the trailing team decides the game is over, it is over. No matter if there are 20 min left on the clock or 10min. Any team can withdraw at any time, can't they?"
QD, I couldn't agree more. That is exactly what I am saying as well -- "Any team can withdrawn at anytime, can't they?" Therefore, it could be be pre-arranged that the losing team will withdraw after 20 minutes. Thus twenty minute matches CAN be played and the poll is not really needed.

My comments earlier were directed at Kierra because she was implying that only 30 minutes matches can count. My response was, teams withdraw or quit before the 30 minute clock is up all the time and the score is recorded. Thus there is nothing prevent two teams from scheduling, playing, and reporting 20 minute matches. And whether or not the matched is "scheduled" or not, the effect is the same -- a 20 minute match.

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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by kierra » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:53 am

The Matches: question 4 Q: When does a battle start? When does it end?
A: Matches have a fixed duration of 30 minutes.
clearly stated, matches are meant to be 30 min
The Matches: question 6 Q: We started a match 2v2, and someone had to leave, what happens now?
A: Preferably, the match will be paused, and a substitute can be found. If not, both teams should agree to either: cancel the match or continue the match at another time. If both teams do not agree to this, then one of two things must happen:
1) If the leading team has lost a player, the match is simply cancelled.
2) If the trailing team lost the player, it is a forfeit, and the score at the time of losing the player is entered.
Question 6 deals with a player leaving a match unexpectedly. The match was begun with the goal of playing an official match which is 30 min as specified clearly in the rules. It is not meant to cover pre-arranged shorter matches.
smooth: "Any team can withdrawn at anytime, can't they?" Therefore, it could be be pre-arranged that the losing team will withdraw after 20 minutes. Thus twenty minute matches CAN be played and the poll is not really needed.
NO WHERE in the FAQs is the concept of a pre-arranged short official match
Yes, there have been occasions where a player leaves unexpectedly ~25+ min into a match with no sub in sight - and teams agree to end it there and post rather than schedule a 5 min match finish later. This happens especially if the score holds no promise of winning for the one of the teams. I have seen teams pick up the last 10 min of an earlier interrupted match.
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Re: GU League Player Poll - 20 min matches

Post by macsforme » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:47 am

The poll is now over, and so is this topic.

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