Official forums for BZFlag.org

Posted: **Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:44 pm**

Admin/cops: duc has server admins, gu: server admins & cops

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:05 am**

damms3xy wrote: Admins/Cops should be based on contributions to activity and obviously ability to analyse behaviour in a punctual but empathetic manor.

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:06 am**

moto unit wrote:Speaking as a former cop on Vipers I think the admin - cop model works very well. Admins cant be on all the time and cops shouldn't have as many privileges as the admins but enough to maintain order and decorum in the games. I think cops are a valuable asset and have a very significant role to play....but then I am kinda prejudiced in that way:) I do think that cops and admins should have the option of having an anon. admin privilege like we used to do on Viper's so that both admins and cops can play at times without being recognized unless they wish to be. This helps with those few individuals who always seem to press the limits when cops/admins arent around but behave only in the presence of cops/admins.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:48 pm**

I think having lots of hidden Cops is a great idea...maybe the only command that they can use is /kick and /mute (maybe for just 10 minutes). That way we can give out LOTS of permissions and (maybe) by giving out more responsibility to more of the player base people will behave better as a whole. If someone is given Cop status and abuses it just take it away until they prove they can play "blank" # of matches to reinstate their status.

The more the merrier in my opinion

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:48 pm**

Viper schema policy group was a good system

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:21 pm**

i'm with fig and gorgo, i like the idea of some hidden cops and letting the league know that hidden admins and cops exist.

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:25 pm**

I love that mofo gives their admins visible @ and also a second nick with hidden @ perms.
Comes in very handy for dealing with idiots and yet still remain on good terms as @.

Posted: **Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:59 pm**

I think that cops is a good idea, but not too many of them. Whether they are hidden or not doesn't really make too much of a difference. Hidden seems to give a greater chance of catching people doing bad things, but the idea is prevention, not punishment, so I think visible is preferable.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:40 am**

I believe the initial idea of this topic was to decide the structure of the new league leadership.

Currently GU has ruling admins, other admins who are not ruling but are @ on the servers and can access the admin forum, and cops which have @ but cannot access the admin forum. As I understand ducati, it has ruling admins (currently only one), and other admins who have @ but cannot access the admin forum. So we have to decide: do we need two or three admin groups, and which should have access to the admin forum?

I would personally probably favor two admin groups (one ruling, and one secondary), both with access to the admin forum. This would require a high standard of integrity and discretion for all admins, as they would be privy to all complaints, server logs, etc.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:49 pm**

The reason to have lots of invisible cops is to make people feel as if they are ALWAYS being watched. Perhaps tricking people into doing a bit more self policing.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:55 pm**

I like Constitutions idea of the two admin group (one ruling, and one secondary) both with access to the forum. While it would require a high standard of integrity and discretion for all admins I think it would encourage players desiring to advance to cop status to be more proactive in their involvement in the game as well as in their desire to help other players and make the league a more enjoyable experience for all players.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:36 am**

Always thought it was weird that cops couldn't see the forums...I would volunteer to be invisible if need

Posted: **Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:20 am**

Couple thoughts on this:

A) Hidden/not hidden
Hidden cops/admins are useful in public servers because there are several new people who visit the server who wouldn't know who the admins/cops are. In a tight-knit group like the league, this effect would only really be useful for the first week or so until everyone knows who is/isn't a hidden cop. Like slamm said, the idea should be prevention, not persecution. Just have enough cops/admins that there's usually one on when others are and we'll be fine.

B) Overall Format
In my opinion, there should be 3 groups:
1. An officiating admin group that deals with bans/voting on bans
2. A representative group that deals with all other admin forum business
3. Cops who have the same privs that GU cops have today, but cannot view the admin forum

The admin forum, therefore, would have two sections - one (private) section for officiating admins and another (private) section for the representative group. There will of course be a few members common to both sections.

Under this format, Group 2 doesn't need to have only people of the most upstanding moral character, etc. Instead, it can comprise of articulate people who can formulate new league ideas and effectively state/explain their opinions. This will be the group that deals with rule changes/events/any other league suggestions. It'd be the best format because there'd be more insight and it wouldn't have to be the same people running every aspect of the league. I'd have a portion of the current @ forum of GU+duc on it along with other players who can contribute, but who are also willing to listen to others' opinions. This should alleviate some of the gridlock we've heard about of the current/previous admin forum.

Posted: **Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:54 pm**

hrj wrote: 1. An officiating admin group that deals with bans/voting on bans
2. A representative group that deals with all other admin forum business
3. Cops who have the same privs that GU cops have today, but cannot view the admin forum

The admin forum, therefore, would have two sections - one (private) section for officiating admins and another (private) section for the representative group. There will of course be a few members common to both sections.

Under this format, Group 2 doesn't need to have only people of the most upstanding moral character, etc. Instead, it can comprise of articulate people who can formulate new league ideas and effectively state/explain their opinions. This will be the group that deals with rule changes/events/any other league suggestions. It'd be the best format because there'd be more insight and it wouldn't have to be the same people running every aspect of the league. I'd have a portion of the current @ forum of GU+duc on it along with other players who can contribute, but who are also willing to listen to others' opinions. This should alleviate some of the gridlock we've heard about of the current/previous admin forum.

The idea of 2 admin groups has been mentioned in IRC. To begin with admins, it is thought to include the present gu ruling admins(if they're willing), osta & jade if they are willing and 2-3+ more players. I would really like to see new faces.
Just some thoughts tossed about in IRC: Steward board: the guiding admins, setting policy, making decisions etc with an @ forum. server admins with forum access to comment on matters when they have something to contribute.
Just some thoughts

Posted: **Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:05 pm**

slamm wrote:I think that cops is a good idea, but not too many of them. Whether they are hidden or not doesn't really make too much of a difference. Hidden seems to give a greater chance of catching people doing bad things, but the idea is prevention, not punishment, so I think visible is preferable.

I agree with keeping the number of cops down and picking people who are fairly active and have *seniority*.. new faces are exciting, and some (relatively) newer players might be level-headed and nice people, but having been a member of both leagues for a long time and knowing the system, the people, and the gameplay well makes a big difference in good judgement. I think this will save confusion and keep things stable through a drastic transition.

As for admin groups, I'm with hrj <-

Personally, I'd really like to see a good player representation group of admins. I really hate to see a chasm between players and admins.. makes productive change difficult. Both leagues have many respectable players that should always be able to input their ideas and opinions, as long as it's in an orderly manner and taken into full consideration. (this subforum is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about)

Posted: **Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:51 pm**

I don't have an oppinion on how the admin board should be structured. I'm with slamm and anyone who is against hidden cops. And I wanted to say that I am and always have been impressed with you players (admins) who make such an effort for our little leagues. Good job

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:41 pm**

I dont like the idea of hidden cops/admins. hrj is completely right, it wouldnt help much.

Im not experienced with admin business and like monster dont have an opinion about the structure.

Posted: **Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:31 am**

hrj wrote:Couple thoughts on this:

A) Hidden/not hidden
Hidden cops/admins are useful in public servers because there are several new people who visit the server who wouldn't know who the admins/cops are. In a tight-knit group like the league, this effect would only really be useful for the first week or so until everyone knows who is/isn't a hidden cop. Like slamm said, the idea should be prevention, not persecution. Just have enough cops/admins that there's usually one on when others are and we'll be fine.

B) Overall Format
In my opinion, there should be 3 groups:
1. An officiating admin group that deals with bans/voting on bans
2. A representative group that deals with all other admin forum business
3. Cops who have the same privs that GU cops have today, but cannot view the admin forum

The admin forum, therefore, would have two sections - one (private) section for officiating admins and another (private) section for the representative group. There will of course be a few members common to both sections.

Under this format, Group 2 doesn't need to have only people of the most upstanding moral character, etc. Instead, it can comprise of articulate people who can formulate new league ideas and effectively state/explain their opinions. This will be the group that deals with rule changes/events/any other league suggestions. It'd be the best format because there'd be more insight and it wouldn't have to be the same people running every aspect of the league. I'd have a portion of the current @ forum of GU+duc on it along with other players who can contribute, but who are also willing to listen to others' opinions. This should alleviate some of the gridlock we've heard about of the current/previous admin forum.

It sounds good.

Posted: **Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:51 pm**

MlG wrote:I dont like the idea of hidden cops/admins. hrj is completely right, it wouldnt help much.

Im not experienced with admin business and like monster dont have an opinion about the structure.

Speaking again as a former cop on Viper's I feel it would be a bad idea not to have cops. Sorry to the folks on here who are of the mindset that they don't help or are not needed. Admins and server owners can't possibly be available 24 hours a day 365 days a year to observe and intercede during times when there are players that abuse the system in whatever ways players choose to do so. The other point I think some people are missing here is that cops and admins are not strictly for policing the server. They are also there or supposed to be there to welcome new players, explain game play, tricks, tips, help with the occasional questions, explain server rules for new players who dont always take time to read them before playing, explain server etiquette as far as joining, requesting permission to join a match whether fun or off. etc. The idea that cops are strictly for being the bad guys is rather narrow minded and missing the bigger picture of the role they can and should be playing in being charged with having an "@" symbol in front of their name.

Posted: **Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:15 am**

Moto Unit wrote:
MlG wrote:I dont like the idea of hidden cops/admins. hrj is completely right, it wouldnt help much.

Im not experienced with admin business and like monster dont have an opinion about the structure.
Speaking again as a former cop on Viper's I feel it would be a bad idea not to have cops. Sorry to the folks on here who are of the mindset that they don't help or are not needed. Admins and server owners can't possibly be available 24 hours a day 365 days a year to observe and intercede during times when there are players that abuse the system in whatever ways players choose to do so. The other point I think some people are missing here is that cops and admins are not strictly for policing the server. They are also there or supposed to be there to welcome new players, explain game play, tricks, tips, help with the occasional questions, explain server rules for new players who dont always take time to read them before playing, explain server etiquette as far as joining, requesting permission to join a match whether fun or off. etc. The idea that cops are strictly for being the bad guys is rather narrow minded and missing the bigger picture of the role they can and should be playing in being charged with having an "@" symbol in front of their name.

totaly agreed

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:21 pm**

I'm in favor of hrj's admin structure suggestion.

I'm in favor of having a larger amount of cops as I feel they are necessary; they would be a great help with helping new players and what not.

I'm in favor of allowing hidden cops/admins, it would allow admins to investigate particular players without giving themselves away. In a perfect world, it would be prevention and not punishment, but it's not a perfect world so punishment will be required. Should hidden cops/admins be allowed, League Overseer will be able to handle that in a unique manner.

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:43 pm**

allejo wrote:I'm in favor of hrj's admin structure suggestion.

I'm in favor of having a larger amount of cops as I feel they are necessary; they would be a great help with helping new players and what not.

I'm in favor of allowing hidden cops/admins, it would allow admins to investigate particular players without giving themselves away. In a perfect world, it would be prevention and not punishment, but it's not a perfect world so punishment will be required. Should hidden cops/admins be allowed, League Overseer will be able to handle that in a unique manner.

agree with allejo in regards to hidden admins (preferably like mofo's set up) and agree with hrj's B section.
Having Cops

provides insight into how a player handles authority
demonstrates his people/communication skills when dealing with players.

Things to consider when looking for additions to the admin structure.

Posted: **Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:08 pm**

With regards to having hidden cops/admins:

Remember when that idiot from the Dominican Republic went around servers wreaking havoc and there were a bunch of hidden cops that were instated? How long did it take for the entire league to know which players were part of that? IIRC, it was somewhere around 2 weeks (max), which is why I don't think having a hidden group adds to anything.

GU isn't really amassing a host of new players who wouldn't know who is/isn't hidden. Also, when a player is warned by a hidden cop/admin and sees a + next to their name instead of an @, then more often than not that hidden cop/admin will get some kind of "screw you" message in return. Eventually, you'll either have to tell the player you're a cop/admin or enact some action that only a cop/admin can, and sooner or later, everyone knows who's what.

Posted: **Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:44 pm**

hrj wrote:Eventually, you'll either have to tell the player you're a cop/admin or enact some action that only a cop/admin can, and sooner or later, everyone knows who's what.

Simply as a side note: banning, kicking, and muting does reveal a hidden admin's identity so League Overseer will serve as a proxy for these actions so it won't reveal a hidden admin's identity. While it won't be impossible to figure out a hidden admin, it can help a bit.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:51 am**

My goodness, is there anything League Overseer can't do?

Anyway, that might help quite a bit. At the very least, it'll delay how long it takes everyone to figure out who's what based on the correlation between League Overseer actions and players on a server, heh.

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