Official forums for BZFlag.org

I've put some thought into new maps and I'm thinking that players can submit maps to a public forum and if said map gets a certain number of votes then it gets put onto a league server for one month (other option would be to have GU council decide which maps get the one month treatment)...

After this month there is a league wide poll to determine if the map is added?

Is there a better system?

Let's keep in mind that there are maps besides hix and duc that poroved themselves in league play already. We could have a look at the variety of maps that were used in the Open League.
From the top of my mind there were:

Grassroots (Babel)
Tajitsu
Octocage
DuPi (Zaphod's Map)

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I like the idea of trying out completely new maps or maps that have never been played in a league. Yet, I think that we shouldn't have too many maps available to play officials on at a time since this would (just my oppinion) dilute the league experience and rob competative players the chance and the necessity to learn all the tricks on the official maps.

Monster wrote:Let's keep in mind that there are maps besides hix and duc that poroved themselves in league play already. We could have a look at the variety of maps that were used in the Open League.
From the top of my mind there were:

Grassroots (Babel)
Tajitsu
Octocage
DuPi (Zaphod's Map)

Ditto on the above!
and Ocut : awesome rico map

monster wrote: I like the idea of trying out completely new maps or maps that have never been played in a league. Yet, I think that we shouldn't have too many maps available to play officials on at a time since this would (just my oppinion) dilute the league experience and rob competitive players the chance and the necessity to learn all the tricks on the official maps.

What's so wrong about leveling the playing field where everyone doesn't know all the tricks on official maps? I happen to think that is a good thing.
If new players aren't completely demolished by experienced players, then they might just stick around some and we all learn the trick shots about the same time. THAT would make for competition, imnsho.

Just what is "dilute the league experience"?

i nominate the Apocalypse (mofo) map for ctf league consideration

sn0w_m0nkey wrote:i nominate the Apocalypse (mofo) map for ctf league consideration

I'd recommend limiting the selection to maps that are open source (and explicitly licensed as such) so that the league and/or the hosters don't need to get special permission to host or modify. That, and I'd fear using a map from a server with a lax language policy would put people into that mindset when playing in that same environment elsewhere.

Alezakos has said he would host a dedicated server for new maps being introduced to the league. He is willing to rotate maps each month. I realize the location isn't perfect for all of us, but for a "trial map" server nobody should care.

I think that maps that have already been proven should have no problem passing the "1 month testing period". I also think the more maps the merrier. However I think there should be rules for maps submitted. For instance they shouldn't have flags, more than 3 shots etc.

Just my two cents.

Fig

Blast, I only learned recently the apoc-mofo map(s) are not opensource or openly shared. That's unfortunate because they do attract activity and we've seen mofo players become interested in GU league. Language and behavior from the cross over players certainly something to consider, my thinking is that we could mentor new players towards more positive futures. Was worth putting out there for consideration... they are really fun maps in my view.

Fig, I like the idea of testing new maps and ideas, this has been something that keeps me playing the game. Perhaps with more testing time say 3-6months for debugging and trial games. Agree with you, no flags, 2-3 shots max, I still desire to play ducati maps, jump, 2 or 3 shot with two passing spots on each side = gucati

Snowmonkey, you would like to see the Planet Mofo map but agree with figurine on no flags, 2-3 shots max. That sounds somewhat contradictorily to me, what am I missing?

Maps can be changed to have no superl flags and shot number limited.
There are versions of Babel with special flags and some without. Depends on how you want it set up.

it's a given that if players vote in Babel map....it will be without super flags and 3 shots only.

Monster wrote:Snowmonkey, you would like to see the Planet Mofo map but agree with figurine on no flags, 2-3 shots max. That sounds somewhat contradictorily to me, what am I missing?

hi monster, your not missing anything! yes, i would like to play the mofo map with a gu-ctf type setup: 2-3 shot, jumping, no super flags because i find mofo maps to be very fun. i wasn't aware however that the mofo people do not share their maps openly so sounds like this is not possible.

my point is is this, i've played this game since 1995 and new maps are a part of why i've played for so long. if we are moving towards a new future as a league then why not test out new maps with gu/duc ctf setups, which i thought Fig was promoting and i support.

The original version of that map is available from Dutchrai's site, if we really wanted to use it: http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/tmf-dutchrai.html

Constitution wrote:The original version of that map is available from Dutchrai's site, if we really wanted to use it: http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/tmf-dutchrai.html

And what license are they released under?

I would like to suggest that there is a set amount of maps to be officially used:

• Hix
• Duc
• Babel
• Pillbox

Aside from having a selection of maps, there should be a map of the week or a map of the month where there will be a special map that will be introduced and can be used for official matches. This would allow players to choose what map they want for the next week or month. This can be handled programmatically so hosts won't need to worry about a restart weekly or monthly.

• Grassroots (Babel)
• Tajitsu
• Ocut
• Octocage
• DuPi (Zaphod's Map)

Players will even be able to nominate a map (provided it's licensed as open source) for the next month or week.

I think for officials there should be a restricted pool of few maps. As monster says. The necessity of learning all the tricks on one particular map should remain. This map pool should consist of 5 maps MAXIMUM (id rather see 3-4).
->"Official Map Pool"

A much bigger map pool should be available for fms. So the league does not limit players in what maps they CAN play but still focuses on the core maps with core skills that are needed for these particular maps.
->"Extended Map Pool"

Also a map change system should be in place. Each month/quarter year the map with most fms played on from the "extended map pool" will be exchanged with the least played map from the "official map pool". So we can play officials on the maps which are most popular judging just by using the players' behaviour. This can help to prevent discussions about "why did the admins put these maps in?".

Each map has to have certain attributes as (scoring system, time limit, min number of players per team,...).

The idea of a map trial server is also appealing. There could be a voting mechanism for maps to be added to the map pool.

MlG wrote:I think for officials there should be a restricted pool of few maps. As monster says. The necessity of learning all the tricks on one particular map should remain. This map pool should consist of 5 maps MAXIMUM (id rather see 3-4).
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I agree on Max 5 and would like to add that I think that we should try to find at least 4 (Hix, Ducati + 2) very good maps and make those the core maps. It is important to decide on those with great care since the core maps make up a great part of a league's identity. Bottom line is that I would like to see a fixed mappool consisting of 4 maps plus one map in rotation.

I know this does not really have anything to do with what you all are talking about but how do you make maps for BZflag?

Hi Samson1. There's some information about that on our Wiki.

https://wiki.bzflag.org/Map_FAQ

Not sure if this is the right thread but I don't want to create a new one for this:

On allejo's server on Babel: If flags are dropped above pyras or tele they will fly to the bases and not like in the original one to the middle. Is this intentional? If yes I would vote to change it back.

Best,
Mo

You're right, Monster.....original OpenLeague babel map indeed did have flag fly to middle of map when dropped from pyra or tele.

With standard settings, the flag flies up too high for it to land in the middle of the map (it tries to land on top of the teleporter, which is invalid). I will look later to see if there are settings that will allow the flag to spawn in the middle properly.

Constitution wrote:With standard settings, the flag flies up too high for it to land in the middle of the map (it tries to land on top of the teleporter, which is invalid). I will look later to see if there are settings that will allow the flag to spawn in the middle properly.

Consti, it is possible because that's how we had it in OpenLeague. It was a strategic pass much like gu's flag pass. Wasn't a problem then. Thank you for looking into it.

To make sure: It used to land on the first level on that catwalk-thing right under the tele and not on the ground.

kierra wrote:

Constitution wrote:With standard settings, the flag flies up too high for it to land in the middle of the map (it tries to land on top of the teleporter, which is invalid). I will look later to see if there are settings that will allow the flag to spawn in the middle properly.

Consti, it is possible because that's how we had it in OpenLeague. It was a strategic pass much like gu's flag pass. Wasn't a problem then. Thank you for looking into it.

Do you have that map file or configuration? Also if it was in the BZFlag 2.0 days it may not necessarily be possible with the newer clients.

I really loved the Octocage, any new maps coming soon?

Octocage was a popular OL map in its day and is on the list to be added.