Official Fun match teams

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click click boom
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Official Fun match teams

Post by click click boom » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:40 am

Hello all,

As we all have spoke about in the past regarding official fun match teams, so here's my proposal to get the most approval rate and the least complexities involved.
There will be two teams, Team A and then Team B, All players will be ranked by our peers, most of us should have a good understanding of each others skill set on here. Each player will be ranked on a scale 1-3, 1 is new, 2 is medium, 3 is the best there is. This will be done behind closed doors so no one is offended on their ranking among their peers. These rankings won't be made public. Once all players are properly ranked they can be placed to a team to be fairly balanced. I suggest just two teams to allow the most amount of mates on for those two teams, the more we divide up the teams the less members there will be on for that respected team obviously. It's to my own understanding that there shouldn't be much that needs coding. Hear me out, right now we are only allowed to be on 1 team, that would need to change to 2 teams, so that part of the code would need to be modified. No special ladders need to be created, under the team page it would have Team A and Team B up at the top of the teams page for easy navigation. The teams page is organized by ranking, so if Team B is better than Team A they will flip flop back and forth. When Team A matches Team B the match results will show up under matches just as it does now. So I don't think much work would need to be put into this, if someone could direct me in that matter I would appreciate it. Now I am just proposing Team A matching Team B, I would like to see Team A/B being able to match Patriots/ Any team. But that will be a mission for everyone to agree on, so this is just a start. Another modification that I would like to see, but that isn't needed is the email string, right now it displays I am on Patriots, if this does launch, I would like it to read Patriots/ Team A. Please provide your thoughts and inputs.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by Zehra » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:24 am

[redacted]
Last edited by Zehra on Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by click click boom » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:29 am

What's the purpose of having an official match if we have an official fun match and the purpose of having two teams and an official match team and a fun team.
Many times throughout the day teams are not on. This would allow competitive play through a ranking system also another tool to measure activity. Also if all agreed and allowed the Team A to match a official team like Patriots this would help in cases 2 teams are no where to be found at the same time.
What is being asked will create a headache for the developers and lead to competing teams and almost create another league which we fixed by creating LU and hoped to eliminate competition from both leagues and increase league activity.( Why undo progress that has been waited for years and is finally here after being waited on for so long?)
First off BZFLAG devs have nothing to do with the league play. The devs that have helped with LU were either asked or kindly helped. LU was created because Ducati league was dead and the Ducati players needed a new place to match, it was not to eliminate two leagues from competing who ever Informed you of this lied to you. No progress is being undone..there is a great new league site along with new maps how is adding a official fm team undoing anything?
And the proposed rating system can be rigged easily.(It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.)
Also the servers will have more load on them.(meaning more lag and more jitter and more problems.)
Who's rigging the rating system? How will the servers have more of a load?? No extra plug-ins are being added, seems like you stole what blast said in reference to hj's last thread which has nothing to do with this.
And if something like this occurs. Where do we stop? Do we start a league known as FL meaning Fun League?(What was LU meant to solve?)(It was meant to solve the issues of the leagues competing.)
Leagues united was not created to solve leagues competing.....We do not need another league for official fun matches when we have the tools al ready infront of us..

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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by blast » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:22 am

click click boom wrote:First off BZFLAG devs have nothing to do with the league play.
I think he was talking about BZiON and/or League Overseer developers.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by kierra » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:01 pm

click click boom wrote:LU was created because Ducati league was dead and the Ducati players needed a new place to match, it was not to eliminate two leagues from competing who ever Informed you of this lied to you.
I think it is you who was misinformed, ccb. :) Players had a place to match, ducati league servers were operative.
The merger idea started when Constitution approached me about combining both leagues. With the diminishing numbers of players, it didn't make sense for the 2 leagues to compete for the few players left. Add to that, I was asked by a couple players about restarting OL....not enough players for 2 leagues, much less 3. Merging into one cohesive group, one site, one team, all matches going to make that league active made sense.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by macsforme » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:30 pm

I don't think right now is a good time to talk about implementing this. Our new web site had barely launched, and there are many compelling issues to be fixed before we try to implement such an invasive new feature. The last time this was brought up, there were many opinions both in favor of it and opposed to it, but there was also a lot of contention over the issue.

It is true that there have been a lot more fun matches than official matches lately. I think with fewer players overall, it is difficult to find an even matchup. Even though matching better teams can help you learn and helps bring activity to the league, speaking as a member of the team in last place, I will tell you that it is extremely demoralizing to be soundly beaten again and again by a team stacked with good players with little hope of doing any better the next time. So, I tend to just decline the match in such a situation these days. As long as we have so few active teams, and such a wide discrepancy of skill, I believe many official matches will be severely mismatched and people will continue to prefer fun matches.

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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by Zehra » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:32 pm

[redacted]
Last edited by Zehra on Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by click click boom » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:56 pm

Constitution wrote:I don't think right now is a good time to talk about implementing this. Our new web site had barely launched, and there are many compelling issues to be fixed before we try to implement such an invasive new feature. The last time this was brought up, there were many opinions both in favor of it and opposed to it, but there was also a lot of contention over the issue.

It is true that there have been a lot more fun matches than official matches lately. I think with fewer players overall, it is difficult to find an even matchup. Even though matching better teams can help you learn and helps bring activity to the league, speaking as a member of the team in last place, I will tell you that it is extremely demoralizing to be soundly beaten again and again by a team stacked with good players with little hope of doing any better the next time. So, I tend to just decline the match in such a situation these days. As long as we have so few active teams, and such a wide discrepancy of skill, I believe many official matches will be severely mismatched and people will continue to prefer fun matches.

Constitution, I get that there is a big to do list, I completely understand that, in my first post I asked if there would be a lot of work implementing this, from my own eyes it would only take modifying the amount of teams a player is on from 1 to 2, and that is it. (I do not know much work that would be in it self because I am not a developer, just using a common sense approach to gauge the level of complexity in the matter) Please redirect me if there is more to do. Second there is always going to be opinions in both in favor and opposed with contention, if we use this as a legitimate excuse to avoid further changes nothing will ever be done. I am just proposing this idea, if there is no support behind it that is fine, this isn't Mc Donalds I don't need to have it my way. But this was brought up years ago and kicked to the side, and is again..As you stated it's the same teams stacked up which are winning, and it's disappointing. The bigger teams take much more pride in winning and having a large team than break up and making smaller teams that would allow for a more balanced league, I have suggested this, but yet this is out of my control, and this proposal is in my control. As you said your clan is in last place, but if say Team A is online which has Mopar Madness and T-Roy vs Consitution and Etigah, this might be a more balanced official match instead of playing Hj and Mc Spatula vs Constitution and Etigah. There are many times when there is 2 teams on but one of the teams doesn't watch to match vs the other due to the fact they will get slaughtered, this is a huge problem with the amount of active teams currently in the league. The website looks phenomenal, just because there is a couple of bugs here and there doesn't ruin the site, what good will be a website with no league activity being played? If this is prioritized over that it would actually make sense. I guess the goal here is to be Pro active and not re active....

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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by kierra » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:24 pm

Flak 18 wrote:What would that improve?
Having Team A & B on the LU site: Would help reflect tangible activity of sorts in the league. Without it, the league appears unhealthy with so few official matches played by only 3-5 teams.
How do we define/determine healthy activity for a league: officials only? or combo of offis & fms.

As it stands now, fms are played, but how many? No way of knowing unless you're on a server at the time or you want to search the replay servers to see.

When bzion reaches a point where bugs are fixed and pertinent issues addressed.....it would be nice to incorporate Team A vs Team B for sure.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by Zehra » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:36 pm

[redacted]
Last edited by Zehra on Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by blast » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:41 pm

click click boom wrote:this isn't Mc Donalds I don't need to have it my way
That was Burger King's slogan. :P

Anyways, isn't the point of a fun match is that it's supposed to be a non-scored unofficial match, "just for fun"? What you're suggesting is a new type of official match type that runs counter to how the existing LU system works (many smaller teams). That would add unnecessary complexity to the league site and to the League Overseer plugin. It's already a complicated code base with it supporting a single team per player. And the entire system has been designed around the assumption that a player will belong only to a single team and that there's only one type of match. Changing that now would require changes throughout the entire system.

It'd certainly be nice to have a system that allows for the easy creation of arbitrary leagues, but we're not there yet.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by click click boom » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:56 pm

Anyways, isn't the point of a fun match is that it's supposed to be a non-scored unofficial match, "just for fun"? What you're suggesting is a new type of official match type that runs counter to how the existing LU system works (many smaller teams). That would add unnecessary complexity to the league site and to the League Overseer plugin. It's already a complicated code base with it supporting a single team per player. And the entire system has been designed around the assumption that a player will belong only to a single team and that there's only one type of match. Changing that now would require changes throughout the entire system.

It'd certainly be nice to have a system that allows for the easy creation of arbitrary leagues, but we're not there yet.
Blast: players would still have the opportunity to just fun match with no points on the line, but by allowing Team A being able to match vs a legitimate team like Patriots, it would help contribute to the activity. On top of that Team A will be able to provide a more equal match. This would give less skilled players a chance to official match too. But if no one wants to match Team A vs Team B or Team A vs patriots, then a regular fun match is fine. Also you brought up the point that I want to hear, so you are stating the plugin would need to be re worked majorly. Thank for you informing me of that, for many years we entered manually, if the plugin required this much work we could always enter the old fashion way until everything caught up.

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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by blast » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:49 pm

For that part I was mainly talking about the league site. The site is designed around there being a single team per player.
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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by Monster » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:45 pm

I liked this concept when it was first introduced by zaphod years ago and I still think that a lot of good could come from it.
But first of all I would strongly suggest not to name the teams "Team A/B" but "Team RED/GREEN" or something even more creative ;)

I don't think that introducing two teams and allowing matched between them is enough. Our league will be able to benefit from this concept by making matches between regular teams and Team RED/GREEN a possibility. As more matches whith value to them are played the competative aspect of our league will grow again. While I don't think that the implementaion will greatly imcrease the player base (i think) it will increase activity among those players who are already under the spell of the beauty of league play.
Although I agree that fms are an integral part of our league and have their own charme I think that an increase in competition is what our league needs at this point. To most people a litle competition is fun and the sense of value a match gains by asserting noumbers to it might encourage players to play more.
Apart from coding issues I can't see how this is a bad time to bring this up. In my eyes a big part of the merger was/is to try out new things (like maps) to increase activity. As the player count is dwindling by the hour it is time to try something new instead of debating only but doing nothing.



PS: Here is my suggestion on how the league could calculate matches between Team RED/GREEE and a regular team:

As regular matches should still be the core of the ladder matches btw regular teams and Team RED/GREEN should count less than regular matches.
Teams are generally ranked between 1000 and 2000 points. As it is hard to evaluate the strength of Team RED/GREEN since it is strongly dependant on the players playing the match I would suggest to neglect the ranking of Team RED/GREEN but only take the rank of the regular team into account.Teams with less points can win more points and lose less points than higher ranked teams:

______ELO__WIN/LOSS
Team 1900 +1/-10
Team 1800 +2/-9
...
Team 1000 +10/-1

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Re: Official Fun match teams

Post by Snake12534 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:12 pm

The teams are unbalanced. The skill level is very undiversed throughout the league.

Any changes to fix this.
retired

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