Open Letter to the LU community regarding rule changes

Discussion for Leagues United players
Post Reply
User avatar
Breaker of Builds
Breaker of Builds
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 pm
Location: /dev/null

Open Letter to the LU community regarding rule changes

Post by allejo »


As many of you are aware, there has been some recent uproar regarding league rules and a lot of unnecessary drama. Allow me to clarify the situation and correct some misinformation that has been thrown around that has only resulted in a toxic environment and innocent players getting caught in the crossfire.

It has been made clear to us that there are certain individuals who would like the league council to reconsider the policy on profanity on league servers. Thank you for bringing your concern to our attention and we'll be more than happy to have a civil discussion regarding changes to the rules. However, due to some players being more vocal than others, it has become clear to us that we cannot have such a mature discussion in a civil manner without certain players resorting to targeting other players for having different opinions as them. Threads are being locked and removed from the BZFlag forums because they achieve absolutely nothing since the more vocal players always take over the thread and go off topic. Some of you may believe that the league having its own forum would solve this problem but it wouldn't, the same vocal players would take over the conversation and the council will be to blame for locking threads instead of the BZBB admins.

The league welcomes players of all ages! Even players that are younger than 13 years old. The project allows players to join the community provided they have parental consent and therefore are allowed to join the league as well. Even though the most cliques in the league are older players, that doesn't mean younger players wouldn't like to join. If you don't see any younger players in the league, take a moment to think why that is. Is it because no one is welcoming them? Is no one explaining to them that they need to be registered with the league to spawn? The league shouldn't be an exclusive playground full of cliques.

This whole fiasco began when we took punitive action against a certain player. Well, rules exist and if someone is breaking them we must take action to rectify the behavior. If we don't, then other players will follow suit and that'll just lead to a nasty environment. For example, if I started playing in the league with a cheat client and I get banned for it, would you all begin objecting to my ban because of my contributions to the project/league and the league should be more forgiving?

We would love to discuss changes to the rules to make the league a better and more enjoyable place for players, however I don't believe we as a community are mature enough to have a civil discussion regarding this when it is obvious some players intend to start a mob to force change.

Let me make one last thing very clear: BZFlag is not a democracy; there are things that cannot be decided with a vote. This is why we have admins and council members in charge of making the final decision. In order to have a fair vote and know "what the players really want," we would have to get a vote from every single player in the league and that's just not realistic. So don't confuse your opinions with what the players actually want.

Thanks for tanking with Leagues United!
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Open Letter to the LU community regarding rule changes

Post by blinky »

Great post, I agree and feel frustrated that my request for people to come up with a constructive argument got turned into a massive obsessive joke.

I will say this, Yvaika put forward an idea in manner I personally don't have a problem with, I think it was tainted because it was associated with unwanted childish moaning and abuse online. People if you want change, try doing it in a manner that's respectful.
Swearing isn't actually necessary on servers and if people do occasionally swear, it's frowned upon but we're not dictators we won't ban for any old thing
from my experience.

From what I saw in the last 24 hours do I really think it's a great idea to give certain players the ability to swear whenever they want? No, I do not because I believe some people don't understand the line between abuse and just swearing casually.

If there's going to be any chance i'd suggest people change their attitude in order to make such a change because right now I see maturity as a huge issue.
click click boom
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Open Letter to the LU community regarding rule changes

Post by click click boom »

@blinky there won't be change as allejo mentioned this is not a democracy. I am not sure why it isn't? You don't need every player to vote but a 75% majority most of the time would be sufficient. People forget it's the players that keep the league alive. And no matter what the discussion is if the majority want it let it go that's in regards to swearing, league format, maps, etc... nothing to be proud of when you say it's not a democracy because it should be.

@ allejo, wether the league forums are on here or not threads don't need to be locked unless it goes way over board. My locked thread was far from that imo..
User avatar
Bullet Catcher
Posts: 556
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:56 am
Location: Escondido, California

Re: Open Letter to the LU community regarding rule changes

Post by Bullet Catcher »

Leagues United is the result of a conspiracy between the council and server operators, who all agree to cooperate to produce a framework for competitive team play. The league is kept alive on a daily basis by all of the following:
  • players
  • game server owners/operators
  • web site owner/operator
Remove any one of these and the league will cease to exist immediately. Eliminate the council/admins or developers and it will slowly wither and die without their caretaking.

The server owners invest considerable time -- and often money -- to empower the players to play BZFlag on LU servers for free. This leads to the golden rule: whoever has the gold makes the rules. That inherent inequality is why LU is not and never will be a democracy.
Deal with it.
quantum dot
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:19 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Open Letter to the LU community regarding rule changes

Post by quantum dot »

I agree players must have a say in league functioning and rules, and they actually do. Players may get a new idea through and implemented if presented in a constructive way. We have had many examples of that in the past. Actually the league we have now is the product of this continuous constructive discussion. That is civilization and politics, that is democracy. Democracy is not coming with "I want XXX and I want it now, let's run a vote" with no previous constructive discussion, pondering pros and cons, evaluating if the change will produce more harm than good, etc. Just to put it in a simple but illustrative example: No matter if a majority of school kids would vote in favour of allowing cursing and harassing in school, that will not make it legal because school rules are not made by pupils, but by the community of pupils, teachers, parents, education experts, etc.

You can approach admins first and see what is in the air about your potential idea, you can always win some admins on your side before coming public, again, politics. The fact that you and your two other mates want it does not mean "most" want it. One has to learn how to ponder majority opinions, also outside your surrounding clique. And, most importantly, you got to be prepared to come to the conclusion that your genius idea might not be accepted. That is real democracy.

Don't let school interfere with your education.
Mark Twain
Post Reply