Endshot kick because of wireless LAN

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deviltank
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Endshot kick because of wireless LAN

Post by deviltank » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:11 pm

From time to time i get endshot kick on ducati and pillbox public and league servers. On public servers its not big problem but if it happens during matches its annoying. Probably that happens because i use wireless LAN, and that means short periods of small packet loss cant be avoided.
I dont know any other players who use wireless LAN so i decided to post my problem here.
Anyway, endshot credit limit is 7 and there has never been an admin who cared for the reason of the kick. As much as i can say, this kick is senseless imho, some for several wrong "too fast kicks" other players seem to get. Either it can indicate a cheat, then an admin should investigate the incident, or it should be removed.
For example there has never been added a "jumping autokick" to pb and duc servers which would be more useful.
I hope some devs could help me maybe.
tnx!

dt

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:01 pm

Hey deviltank! :) Old pal...
I use wireless lan, don't experience this problem... :(
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Post by Davy Jones » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:24 am

at pb and duc, i think a "Jumpauto ban" would be more useful...Seeing as how you can't jump without explicitly cheating...
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Post by The Red Baron » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:42 am

deviltank - what router do you use?
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Post by deviltank » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:45 am

@cbg, yo buddy, when do you come back?

@davy jones: endshot kick was made do discover cheaters too and i have seen several cheaters jumping on duc and pb servers, but noone "shooting in unregular directions".

@TRB: I use a router called "fritzbox 7050". Its a router for using DSL internet and VOIP (Telephoning via internet) at the same time. I dont get endshot kick when i connect via LAN, but as i cant lhave my comp next to my router permanently, i need to use wireless.
I think i've read about the same problem in a forum before. I have also asked a lot of admins, but noone could help. If nobody can help me id like to ask if endshot kick is really necessary (at least on match servers) as such ways of cheating are obvious.

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:27 pm

deviltank wrote:@cbg, yo buddy, when do you come back?
Maybe never, dt, sorry... I just chat here and don't play anymore.
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Post by deviltank » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:31 pm

i've had some enshot kicks again and it seems i only get endshot kicks immediately afterwards i get killed. I didn't shoot, i only tried to dodge unseccuesfully. How can the endshot plugin discover a "cheat" when someone died "correctly"?
This time wireless signal strenght was very good and i use the latest version.
Can nobody help me? :cry:

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Post by anomaly » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:22 pm

endshot detection is handled by the server. Its not a plugin that I know of. You may already know this and it may not be much help but,

A players endShotCredit is set to zero when a they join a game.
endShotCredit is decremented when a shotfired message is received by the server and the player flag is GM.
endShotCredit is also decremented when that player is killed.
endShotCredit is incremented when a shotend message is received by the server and at that point endShotCredit is checked against the endShotLimit, which defaults to 5.

thats the only endshot detection that I could find.

Not much room for any network issues if endShotLimit is set too low. You might check your lag and packetloss or out of order packets. if these are high then the issue might be your network connection to these servers. You can type '/set' to see what '_endShotDetection' is set to. Does this happen at all servers or just some? I use a wireless LAN sometimes as well and I don't have any problems. btw, if you are using VOIP at the same time as playing, that could be an issue depending on your DSL speed. VOIP packets are usually set to high priority in the TOS byte to be sent before data. this means bzflag packets will go through your router after VOIP packets have been sent.

Just a few things to look at, hope this helps

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Post by geekette » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:57 am

I just had a similar experience on Badgerking's server a while ago. At one point, I picked up a cloak flag, went to shoot, and noticed my shots were rather short. I was then kicked by an admin for "cheating". Tried to find out why, but said admin was not inclined to discuss the matter.

Someone on IRC told me this was the result of an "endshot" cheat... so this can possibly be triggered by a network glitch?

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Post by Manu » Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:39 am

anomaly wrote: A players endShotCredit is set to zero when a they join a game.
endShotCredit is decremented when a shotfired message is received by the server and the player flag is GM.
endShotCredit is also decremented when that player is killed.
endShotCredit is incremented when a shotend message is received by the server and at that point endShotCredit is checked against the endShotLimit, which defaults to 5.
You forgot to say it's also decremented when you are hitted and have shield ;)

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Re: Endshot kick because of wireless LAN

Post by Manu » Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:55 am

deviltank wrote: For example there has never been added a "jumping autokick" to pb and duc servers which would be more useful.
I hope some devs could help me maybe.
tnx!

dt
You can explain when are you kicked. When you are hitted?, after you are hitted?, after you are killed and you shoot?...

How is your jitt?

Jumping autokick never was added because nobody implemented it. endshot cheat detection is not a plugin, it's part of the bzfs code.

Before you are kicked and you are killed, can you see several messages of being hitted?

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Post by deviltank » Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:03 pm

tnx for your posts manu and sry for the late answer.

-i didn't know that endshot credit gets decremented after you get shot, that might explain some things.

-I ONLY get endshot kick immediately after beeing shot. Someone shoots me and i get kicked no matter if i hit someone else or if i shot at all.
This doesn't happen too often (about 5 times per months) and seems to happen rather randomly.
Mostly i get this kick when the wireless link quality is rather bad, but i already got it with 90 % signal strenght and 54 mbit/sec and i already played matches with constant 3-4 % packet loss and only 1 mbit/sec without any kick.

Atm i am upgrading from 802.11g wireless (54 mbit/sec) to 802.11++ (125 mbit/sec), which has 50% higher signal strenght. But as the problem has not been identified yet i can only hope it will help.

And i still wonder if theres an influence of cellphones and VOIP on that issue. So if an electrical engineerer is reading this, plz tell me :)

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Post by deviltank » Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:18 pm

@anomaly: sry, forgot to post this earlier....

VOIP priority is set higher than the other one. But i don't think that should be a problem as we are talking about a few ms.
If i am not completely wrong, endshot kick kicks because of "corrupted" data. So the question is if VOIP only makes you lag or if it makes a router to "confuse" data. The strange thing is that the whole problem only appears with wireless LAN, but not with a cable connection.

@other wireless users
-whats your connection speed (faster than 54 mbit/sec)?
-whats the distance between the router and your comp (more than 7 metres+ceiling)?

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Post by blast » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:45 pm

I've never been kicked for the end-shot credit. And I play on wifi a lot. Right now, my signal strength is 3 out of 5 bars ("Good") and the speed is 36.0Mbps. I'm probably 40 feet away, through a ceiling and a wall.
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Post by anomaly » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:48 am

deviltank wrote:VOIP priority is set higher than the other one. But i don't think that should be a problem as we are talking about a few ms.
That is not normally an issue, but all these little things can add up. I play on wireless sometimes and I have not experienced endshot kick. I looked at the Fritz!box on the web, one thing to check is from http://www.avm.de/en/Sicherheit/DSL/DSL_Zugriffe.html

Because the most secure Internet connection is still none at all, FRITZ!web DSL automatically clears down the connection when it is idle. This mechanism is called Short-Hold Mode. As soon as you access the Internet again, for example, by clicking a hypertext link for example, the connection is dialed up again in seconds. You hardly notice the interruption -- and if your Internet access is billed by online time, it saves you money as well.

This may be not be it, but I suspect the router may be the issue.

and yes Manu I missed the "shield hit" check.
Last edited by anomaly on Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Manu » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:14 pm

deviltank wrote:...
-I ONLY get endshot kick immediately after beeing shot. Someone shoots me and i get kicked no matter if i hit someone else or if i shot at all.
This doesn't happen too often (about 5 times per months) and seems to happen rather randomly.
...
Just tell me if you can see more than one "Got shot by playername...." messages when you are kicked.

Probably it's a bug because you are ending shots after dead. Probably because net problems (lag/jitt).

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Post by deviltank » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:08 am

@Manu:

It says something like:

got shot by player ??? //after this message i get disconnected
wrong end shots detected
endshot credit limit [6]


@anomaly

i've bought a much stronger wireless dongle and switched off eco mode (your short-hold-mode i guess). Both modes seem to work fine, eco-off is a bit better concerning lag.



Since i use the new dongle i haven't been kicked yet.
If i don't get endshot kicked within the next month, the problem can be considered as solved. Tnx for your help all!

But i still wonder why i need such a strong wireless connection (11++), although for example games like warcraft can easily be played with 11g or even with 11b if the connection is not too bad.

dt

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kicked for endShotDetection when shooting ...

Post by Yojimbo » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:11 am

I've noticed this kick a few times recently, and I guess it's only since being on wireless LAN as well (WRT54G v5, with Dell Broadcom under WinXP).

I've just run up a local server for some other testing, and I've noticed pretty consistently that I've been kicked for this reason when firing GM - shot limit is 5, _endShotDetection 5.0000000 5.

However I changed _eSD to 1, on one test run I was kicked very quickly, on another nothing I did seemed to trigger a kick.

So it's not directly related to the settings. Perhaps it is network packet loss that's to blame ...
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not even 5 shots

Post by Yojimbo » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:19 am

Well there's a thing :-) I just started another test run, connected, spawned, fired three unlocked GMs out of 5, saw then run for less than maximum distance, and got kicked for wrong end shot detection.

So I don't see the kick being rdirectly elated to the number of shots in flight ... and in my case it's not when I get shot either, the only other player on the server wasn't shooting at all.

I have a strong connection to the wireless network, but it does go via a repeater before getting to the AP, and in general the wlan is not healthy. I'm building a new wlan with different WRT54G devices (a v2 and a GL v1.1) both with OpenWRT Kamikaze 7.07. When that's up I'll keep a close eye on this kick condition.
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Re: kicked for endShotDetection when shooting ...

Post by Manu » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:13 am

Yojimbo wrote: However I changed _eSD to 1, on one test run I was kicked very quickly, on another nothing I did seemed to trigger a kick.
Min _endShotDetection safe value is 3 (if you set it to 1 you are almost instant kicked when shoot) a value of 0 disables the detection.

For players with net issues like you (using wireless) a value of 6 is probably enough safe.

Manu

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Post by deviltank » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:50 am

@Manu and Yojimbo: You're talking about changing the server settings. That only works for servers you own or the owner helps you. I've talked about this with some admins of league servers before and they won't change anything concerning the endshot settings. (Seems like endshot kick has been quite useful in the past to detect cheatclients)
Anyway, i've tested my new wireless (now 125 mbit/sec and 200 m range) for one week and i can say there is no more packet loss /lagstats can detect. And i haven't been endshot kicked again.
But to me this is "shooting on birds with cannons"...

Thank you everyone for your help! Especially for the facts about the endshot kick and the eco mode thing.

dt

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