Periodically cannot interact unless rejoin

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dirtdawg
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Periodically cannot interact unless rejoin

Post by dirtdawg » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:16 pm

Okay, I've really fallen in love with Bzflag, but I have a minor issue.

Regardless of the server, about every 10 minutes or so, I lose the ability to pick up flags or interact with any of the other players or send messages. I can still see everybody and I still recieve all the messages (who killed who, etc), I just cannot interact.

If I rejoin the game the problem is solved, but that usually resets my score and often switches my team. I have tried to wait out the problem befor, but got kicked from the server for inaction.

I have not found a solution to this problem and wondered if anybody knows of one?

Thanks again.

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Post by Triumph of the Soul » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:40 pm

I had this problem for a little while too. Only it would take about 30 seconds instead of 10 minutes. I don't know why, but the problem just went away after a little while. I also posted on these forums for help but got none. I would like to know what is up too.
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:50 pm

Sounds like you are becoming NR very often, why this is, I can't say.
Please provide more information:
OS, BZ version, Internet Connection, etc.
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Post by A Meteorite » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:08 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:Sounds like you are becoming NR very often, why this is, I can't say.
Please provide more information:
OS, BZ version, Internet Connection, etc.
And if you have a router, if so what model/type - this is probably the most important part. :)
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Post by bzflaginator » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:26 am

I used to have this issue before I switched ISP's. The issue is your high ping time a.k.a. lag. What ISP are you using, and what speed is your connection? Not really sure why it occurs because your web browser should not be slow correct? Solely bzflag? If so, I have nothing to tell you other than Im sorry :P. There is no real solution other than maybe changing ISP's which is drastic. But leave a bit more information on your next post so we can further help you.
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Post by A Meteorite » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:46 am

one90 wrote:I used to have this issue before I switched ISP's. The issue is your high ping time a.k.a. lag. What ISP are you using, and what speed is your connection?
High lag will not cause you to go not responding. You'll just have high lag.

Although, your packet loss will shoot up when you go not responding so that gives me a feeling they are related to an extent.
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Post by bzflaginator » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:57 am

Thats where you are wrong. You are putting words in his mouth. He said he could see the tanks and move around which is what the issue is here. Maybe he is going NR, who knows. From my experience with this, when it happens, all that comes up is the text with a great delay of around 15 to 30 second range. Lets say someone died or I sent a message. It wont show up on the text for that period of time and then suddenly it appears. During this time I can still play but cant kill anyone or pick up flags in worst cases. And often when someone goes NR it is a problem with their connection I believe (correct me if Im wrong) and their lag will show after some time.
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Post by dirtdawg » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:33 am

A Meteorite wrote:
CannonBallGuy wrote:Sounds like you are becoming NR very often, why this is, I can't say.
Please provide more information:
OS, BZ version, Internet Connection, etc.
And if you have a router, if so what model/type - this is probably the most important part. :)
I didn't even think about the router,
I'm using Dapper Ubuntu 6.06 with BzFlag v. 2.0.8 and a cable connection.
However, I am running the connection through a Netgear Wireless Router model # WGR614 v3.

I don't believe it's a connection problem as I have no troubles otherwise, so I assume the router is blocking me for some reason? How can I fix it?

Thanks

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Post by A Meteorite » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:01 am

dirtdawg
Does everyone's tank have a little black bubble around it and does [NR] appear after their name in the score list (press 's')?
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it's your router

Post by learner » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:13 am

About 90% of the time, this is a bug in your local router or cable modem. Especially common in the "economicly priced" though it can be found even in some of the high end models too, several router variants have problems in their UDP TCP/IP stack management. You still get to see the gameplay and mildly interact because you're inbound and tcp traffic is usually unaffected, but outbound UDP is usually hosed.

The router basically chokes on all the UDP traffic that the game is sending back and forth and it eventually gives up -- causing you to go NR. You can usually get around this by resetting the connection, connecting again, restarting the router, or a variety of other little tricks, etc, but that just avoids the problem.

The fix is usually to fix the router. There is usually a firmware update provided by your router's manufacturer with steps on their site for how to install/update the router. With the firmware updated, usually it's smooth sailing from there.

Another slightly related comment -- routers can similarly choke if you have multiple computers playing from behind your router. The solution is still pretty much the same (i.e. try updating firmware), but it's a lot easier to provoke given the quantity of traffic and IP forwarding going on.

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Post by Longhair » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:05 pm

I can still see everybody and I still recieve all the messages (who killed who, etc), I just cannot interact.
Doesn't sound like NR to me. Usually, when I go NR, I don't get any messages at all.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a second computer in the house that you can test bzflag on? Preferably a different OS, even if it's a different flavor of Linux.

One thing that jumps to mind is that the bzflag Debian packages have a long and sordid history of being buggy. The symptoms sound different from what I had, but it may be worth trying to compile it from source code. Sadly, compiling from source is a PITA in Ubuntu dapper. It doesn't even come with make installed.

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Post by dirtdawg » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:38 pm

I did not know firmware even existed, thank you. However, after I updated the firmware, the problem persists. But now after a minute or two of the "symptoms", I get kicked from servers for NR.

Considering the slight change after updating the firmware leads me to believe it is a problem with the router. One Netgear may not have bothered fixing.

Still, I am going to try compiling the game from source on the chance the deb is indeed buggy.

Thank you all again, I will post with results.

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Post by dirtdawg » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:11 pm

The source compiled beautifully, but alas, it did not solve the problem. I'm convinced the problem must lie with the router. Of course, if anyone else has a last-ditch idea I am open to suggestions. Luckily, although the problem is frustrating, it does not render the game unplayable.

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Post by dirtdawg » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:20 pm

Longhair wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do you have a second computer in the house that you can test bzflag on? Preferably a different OS, even if it's a different flavor of Linux.
Good idea. I'll try it on my Windows partition.

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Post by learner » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:08 am

Netgear is somewhat notorious for having various router revisions that are .. less than favorable, with unfixed bugs. So your assertion could very well be true.

There are a few other things you can try, though. Try changing your routers routing settings. That is, if you've got a firewall turned on, try turning it off. If it supports a DMZ or "pass-through" IP, try setting that to your machine. If it supports a firewall but you had the firewall off, try turning it on and adding the appropriate TCP and UDP ports for BZFlag. Try changing your MTU size. Try resetting the router to default factory settings if you've already been messing with it.

Basically, in a lot of cases, you can sort of avoid the problem by making the router "do something different". There's really a ton of things you can try that are heavily dependent upon the depth of your router's settings. Might also want to do a google search for your router version and UDP problems.. might get lucky with some setting suggestion. Best of luck.

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Post by bzflaginator » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:45 am

Learner:
Do you think it may be part of the same problem I had with the connection thieves?

I would just consider getting a new router. If yours is outdated and infact a netgear, I would look at Belkin or Linksys. But thats just me.
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Post by dirtdawg » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:19 pm

I turned off the firewall and tried a few small tweaks with the router, but the problem persists(some of the suggestions above make me nervous, as I dont have much of an idea about what I'm doing when it comes to routers, etc.). Strangely, I tried the game on the same computer in the Winows partition and the problem was gone, so it may be a problem with Linux after all.

I may ask about this on the Ubuntu Forum. I will post if anything comes up (on the off chance someone with exactly the same situation finds this thread).

Thanks again for all the help. I'm really loving the game.

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