my.bzflag.org - hall of fame list?

All things BZFlag - no [OT] here please
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sos
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my.bzflag.org - hall of fame list?

Post by sos » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:02 am

I have seen people set up theit own maps with bots so they can get really high scores.
Top 3 on the list :

grover 21000 10,499.500
dust in the wind 16577 8,280.010
Durf 13459 6,729.000

My question is why do they have this list :http://my.bzflag.org/playerstats.php
And Im talking about that hall of fame list. Not other stats.

Too see how many boots people have killed? :)
Last edited by sos on Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: my.bzflag.org - Player Stats is a joke now

Post by strayer » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:15 am

sos wrote:My question is why do they have this list :http://my.bzflag.org/playerstats.php
As you noticed this is not a site/list which can represent the player's real strength. In this case it's (I think so) more an interesting and funny ranking list.
Futhermore, in the time this stats site was written, there were no guys who where playing agianst bots just to get incredible high-scores. :o)

If you are really interested in having a representative player strength list, you should use something like the ELO ranking system and/or some filter mechanisms (i.e. "ignore player score if more than x% of the tanks are bots*", "ignore player's score if other tanks have no or only 5% of this tanks's kills"). This would not be perfect, but much better. You can imagine that such a system would need time to be coded and much more ressources than a "simple" ranking as the used "strength index".

So the question is: Is it worth it?
The answer: No.** :o)


*...The server seems to know when a player is just a bot, but doesn't (always) forward the information.
**...Not in the current situation.
A pessimist is an optimist with experience... ;o)

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JeffM
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Post by JeffM » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:54 pm

if you have criticism please make it constructive. Calling things a "joke" is no way to get the problem fixed.

Perhaps you could suggest a solution.

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Post by khazhyk » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:42 pm

Some of those entries are leftovers from the problem we had one or two years ago... (cheating)
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Post by meeba » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:23 am

The server should keep a score field for bot kills, sorta like team kills, only the points are still counted. Then stats servers, etc., can get this data and subtract bot kills from total kills and we can have a more accurate representation?

Doesn't seem like that would be TOO hard to do, but I could be wrong.

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Post by ts » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:41 am

I would vote for only counting scores on servers that do not allow bots.
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Post by sos » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:14 pm

JeffM2501 wrote:if you have criticism please make it constructive. Calling things a "joke" is no way to get the problem fixed.

Perhaps you could suggest a solution.
Oh next time I will ask you before posting here
:evil: :evil:
Yes . My point was only that the list "wall of fame" must be rewritten because the way its today.. ye see for yourself,.
ts wrote:I would vote for only counting scores on servers that do not allow bots.
Yes a good point. Its the best I think.

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Post by birdie » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:16 pm

ts wrote:I would vote for only counting scores on servers that do not allow bots.
there wont be much servers you would have to count the scores on. Some (also popular) servers somethimes put 1 or 2 bots in the server to be in the serverlist to attract people.

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Post by meeba » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:52 pm

birdie wrote:
ts wrote:I would vote for only counting scores on servers that do not allow bots.
there wont be much servers you would have to count the scores on. Some (also popular) servers somethimes put 1 or 2 bots in the server to be in the serverlist to attract people.
And that's why I suggested it might be possible to discount the bot kills, and still count player-player kills on all public servers.

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Post by blast » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:11 pm

birdie wrote:there wont be much servers you would have to count the scores on. Some (also popular) servers somethimes put 1 or 2 bots in the server to be in the serverlist to attract people.
Yeah, that's the kind of servers I go to and start poll bans against the bots. I hate when any server uses bots to boost their ranking on the list.
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Post by bzflaginator » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:27 pm

blast wrote:
birdie wrote:there wont be much servers you would have to count the scores on. Some (also popular) servers somethimes put 1 or 2 bots in the server to be in the serverlist to attract people.
Yeah, that's the kind of servers I go to and start poll bans against the bots. I hate when any server uses bots to boost their ranking on the list.
Seems a bit childish dont you think :wink: . Just because you hate it, doesnt mean you can ruin it for the owner/operator.
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Post by blast » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:01 pm

bzflaginator wrote:
blast wrote:Yeah, that's the kind of servers I go to and start poll bans against the bots. I hate when any server uses bots to boost their ranking on the list.
Seems a bit childish dont you think :wink: . Just because you hate it, doesnt mean you can ruin it for the owner/operator.
Awww, it's always fun seeing 10 to 20 bots all sign off at once. :) I don't just go to a server to ban them. I go to a server thinking there is 18 players, but find out it's five or six people shooting bots (or getting pwned by bots).
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Post by bzflaginator » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:41 pm

Ohhhh I see. Well that is different :P. But I dont think I would want to play on a server like that lol.
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Post by Davy Jones » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:32 am

Doesn't the ban Kick/Ban the IP? When i kick a bot off that i run, i also get kicked off...so polling to ban against an unprotected bot could ban an administrator?
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Post by khazhyk » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:33 am

yes it could, unless you do /poll idban
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:47 am

And what...?
blas007t++
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Post by A Meteorite » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:21 am

Davy Jones wrote:Doesn't the ban Kick/Ban the IP? When i kick a bot off that i run, i also get kicked off...so polling to ban against an unprotected bot could ban an administrator?
me2 wrote:yes it could, unless you do /poll idban
Actually, no, it wouldn't. Any decent set-up would give the antiBan permission to administrators which would protect you from being banned.
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Post by anomaly » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:33 pm

Davy Jones wrote:Doesn't the ban Kick/Ban the IP? When i kick a bot off that i run, i also get kicked off...so polling to ban against an unprotected bot could ban an administrator?
this

Code: Select all

VERIFIED: -pollBan 
placed in the groupdb file takes care of that.
However,

Code: Select all

ADMIN: +antiban +antikick +antipollban +antipollkick +antipollkill +antideregister +antikill +antipoll
works better. As A Meteorite pointed out.

I got banned from my own server once. :? Live and learn. I have run a bot from time to time but only to play against, not to attract others. I didn't think about the score issue. Of course I'm in no danger of having a high score, even against a bot :| . Some people really don't like the bot so I don't run him much anymore.

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Post by khazhyk » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:21 pm

met: if an admin with antiban is banned when they aren't on, they will stay banned. so if you ban a bot without antiban with your ip, you'll get banned also, unless you are online at the time of the ban.
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Post by blast » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:15 pm

you1 wrote:met: if an admin with antiban is banned when they aren't on, they will stay banned. so if you ban a bot without antiban with your ip, you'll get banned also, unless you are online at the time of the ban.
Antiban is also supposed to allow people to join even if they are banned. That's how some servers use a whitelist when banning a large range of addresses.
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Post by Davy Jones » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:53 pm

I was actually referring to the "Antikick"

I can kick myself off by kicking a bot even when i am on, *Yes, i have Admin Perms* I will test the shortban shortly, i think we need a dev to clear this up ;)
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Post by blast » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:35 pm

Davy Jones wrote:I was actually referring to the "Antikick"

I can kick myself off by kicking a bot even when i am on, *Yes, i have Admin Perms* I will test the shortban shortly, i think we need a dev to clear this up ;)
Are you referring to a poll kick, or to the regular /kick command?
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Post by A Meteorite » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:35 pm

Davy Jones wrote:I can kick myself off by kicking a bot even when i am on, *Yes, i have Admin Perms* I will test the shortban shortly, i think we need a dev to clear this up ;)
It doesn't make sense to have antiBan applied to you and not antiKick. It's really not that hard to set both.

You don't even need to test it. I tested it long ago and it works as expected. Plus, blast is a dev and I've done a lot of poking around myself too.
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Post by khazhyk » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:11 pm

blast wrote:
you1 wrote:met: if an admin with antiban is banned when they aren't on, they will stay banned. so if you ban a bot without antiban with your ip, you'll get banned also, unless you are online at the time of the ban.
Antiban is also supposed to allow people to join even if they are banned. That's how some servers use a whitelist when banning a large range of addresses.
Eh, that's not how it effected me on my server long ago. guess it's changed.
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