ducati ctf style

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:10 am

I know that this has come up many times in the past but something really needs to be done about it. I was playing on quols ctf server and a few players decided it was ok to capture with uneven teams. This started a huge arguement and, I am sorry to say, was a part of it (I had a bit of a bad day and this wasn't helping). Some zero-tolerance rules need to be set out for these servers.

1. No captures if the teams are uneven. If the game is even join as an observer, find another server or see if the want to play htf
2. Don't even think about grabbing the flags if teams are uneven. Period. Unless the smaller team says ok there is no excuse for doing this. Neither team should touch flags if teams are uneven.
3. Don't play in a way that you know will tick people off. I am sick and tired of this attitude and these types of people should be banned.
4. Don't make harsh comments or tease too much if you don't know the person. I am fed up with being harrased "it is fine to ctf its 4:3" or "widow you are such a *****" (these comments are coming from supposedly "good and nice" ducati players
5.Obviosly don't tk, commit suicide or capture your own flag. I really shouldn't have to put this down but some people....

Anymore suggestions would be appreciated for a set of rules. I wish that people would play respectfully and just have fun. It takes the fun out of the game when certain things happen so don't do them.

More admins would be helpful also.

Post by **trepan** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:12 am

would anyone be interested in having a patch
for bzfs that only allows carrying team flags
while the number of players of the flag's team
and the carrying player's team are equal? It
would only help with issue #2, but it's a start.

Post by **trepan** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:15 am

oops, also, it might cause some new unsportmanlike
tactics where a team member would leave the game
momentarily to force a flag drop on the other team.
Probably not such a big deal, because the carrying
player should still be close to the flag.

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:39 pm

That patch sounds good! You could create the patch to allow a tank to continue carrying the flag if someone signs off. If the person carrying the flag gets shot then the flag stays where it is until teams are even again.

[dmp] · Post by **[dmp]** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:26 pm

Some stuff than came to mind when reading your post:

1: I dont like this idea. How would you enforce this? Kick everybody that joins when teams are even? Would you have the time patients to explain why people cant play, even if there is a free spot? Personally I think they should join, and let the game change so everyone can have a fun. I would hate to ask somebody to leave the game, because it was fun and even before he arrived.

I think it will cause more problems, than it will solve - unless ofcause somebody observes of their own free will, i cant see how this would work.

2: I agree. Just with the addition that even teams are not numbers of reds = numbers of greens. If you can walk down a capture the flag, time after time, without problems, teams are uneven, This can be solved by rearranging teams. Depending on the players, this normally happens. However, in 4vs4 (where you need to switch - two players need to leave and join as the other team) it can be hard to do it, for some reason. I tried it a few times, but mostly didnt get any response from the opponent team. This might be related to, that if they see some/alot of observers, they dont feel like giving up their spot and hope that I will do the same. I understand, not all players like to "keep the line".

3+4: Hard not to agree on this. Actually, I know a few league teams, who tries to educate their co-players to behave better - I've seen it a few times, and its a big comfort every time. Kudos to them.

5: I disagree with commiting suicide

But there is an old posting about that elsewhere. Capturing your own flag with the purpose to annoy people should get the ban-reward for that effort.

More admins alot of servers seems to be adminless

.

I dont like the idea about the patch. Server will never be able to determind if teams are even. I would hate to lose all possibilities to play ctf, because you''re uneven number of players. And im pretty sure that this will be abused.

If tanks can't pick up the flag, then I would just keep a tank close to the flag. When somebody joins the opponent, making teams even, the newcommer is spawn at base, which means, that you will still have 4 tanks "in the battlefield" closer to the flag, than the opponent.

My few cents, hope it makes sense

larsl · Post by **larsl** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:37 pm

Personally, I think that 4:3 is OK. If it's 4:2 someone should switch, but no one should have to wait (or force everyone else to play FFA) just because there are 3 players on each team.

ski · Post by **ski** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:43 pm

i agree

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:04 pm

I still think that the team with 3 should agree to ctf first so there isn't any problems.

[dmp] · Post by **[dmp]** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:30 pm

Actually, I find it hard to get a response from people if they want to CTF or not. This is annoying; Because I know alot of people think 3:4 is unfair no matter what, so getting no response; does that mean that its no-ctf-time. And furthermore, some people might say no to CTF'ing, while some of their teammates get our flag. How to react on this?

My solution is going for a FFA server. Its a waste of time, if 5-7 people cant agree what to do.

Rebel Chikorita · Post by **Rebel Chikorita** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:57 am

everytime i go to ducati (or quols) its a judgement call .
i usually jump in as an observer first , to see how what the situation is between the teams .

when the teams are already even (both in number of players an skill level of the players) i stay out , until someone leaves an a spot opens up . or until someone else joins , and so i join in to even it up . patience is a virture O:)

if teams are uneven , then i always join the smaller team . however , if the larger team consists mostly of newbies and the smaller team is mostly experienced players , then i do not join .

if im playing and the teams are even , but unbalanced skillwise , i try to ask an see if people are willing to switch with mee so that it will be more even . to mee , a hard won or fairly won flag capture is worth more than an easily won unfair capture .
i play for the challenge(and maybe learn a few new things) , not to feed my ego or beat people up like a bully .

another thing . when teams are even and either i or my teammate has carried the enemy flag near our base , but at the last moment a player on the other team has quit... to mee it is a big judgement call , whether to proceed and capture , drop the flag where it is , or bring it back to the middle of the map , or return it all the way back to the other teams base .
it depends on many factors , and it all has to be weighed in a short amount of time .
if the enemy player quit out of cowardice , if there is a cheater on the enemy team , or the other team is much stronger even if its smaller , then i will CTF .
if the smaller team is much weaker , or are all nice peeps that i like then i may bring their flag all the way back to them .
if teams were even to start with , but somebody left because they had a good reason , then i will drop the flag where it is or bring it to the middle of the map . but i will not pick up the enemy flag or encourage others to , until someone else has joined the enemy team and evened it up again .
or if the smaller team insists that we go ahead and capture .(personally i dont like to and won't , or i do so reluctantly)
but in general i do not capture if teams are uneven or unfair .

ect.ect.

im not going to write a whole book on this here .

there is no need for a forced patch to do this for us ...people should just use their best judgement .
if it comes to a point where wee do need something like that , then it is a sad indicator of what the BZ community has come to .

p.s.- i will also CTF when a certain annoying "pig" of a person shows up . he knows who he is... and i apologize in advance to anyone that is on the same team as him . im sorry but this must be done .

[dmp] · Post by **[dmp]** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:53 am

I think that Rebel chik is saying, that we should use our common sense and try to make the game fun for everybody..

Depending on the players you are playing with, these issues can and are sorted out without problems. However, only one player needs to be there, to make it alot harder.

daBomb (no more) · Post by **daBomb (no more)** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:57 am

Chika said important thing (well the most important for me): I capture, mostly, when capturing is a challenge. There is no fun in blowin newbies' bottoms up by scoring a team point. Same thing about smaller team. This statement is my opinion on points 1,2,3.
I think this point of view is common and omnipresent.

Now I'm wondering if we really have a problem with such behavior - capturing when teams are uneven. Message to everybody: "don't CTF, it is uneven" (or such) stops player who is carrying the flag in most cases .

Another question: is this really so annoying for you when someone captures your flag and you are on smaller team? Personally I just don't care.

daBomb

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:17 pm

Most of the time I am fine with playing 4:3 but when I am on a team with newbies and some fairly good players on the other team decide to capture I don't view this as fair. The problem with common sense is that it isn't that common. I would like to come up with a list of rules that cover every aspect of the ducati ctf style of play just to make sure that all players are very clear on the matter. I am sick of people saying "its fine to ctf" when teams aren't even (both in skill and players).

bamf. · Post by **bamf.** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:39 pm

I'm tend to side with DaBomb. I play ctf to capture the flag, not just to shoot tanks. If teams are even and I'm running the flag to base and an opponent leaves, I'm still going to finish the run.
I don't flag if teams are unbalanced to begin with but, I have no problem with other tanks who wish to do so. If I'm on the smaller team, flag away folks, I don't need a tissue, I'm a big boy, that's what a ctf server is for.
Waiting around for teams to get even, (which rarely is more than a temporary state - even teams, that is) defeats the purpose of ctf. In the end, what does it really matter anway?? It's just a game, have fun with it!

cheers!

ski · Post by **ski** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:40 pm

if it seems uneven i always ask, however many times I come across what [dmp] mentioned...no answer. BUt usually unless ive been given the go ahead, i usually wait until teams even out. Usually i like to be on the short handed team because I think its more challenging

Rebel Chikorita · Post by **Rebel Chikorita** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:16 pm

bamf. wrote: ...If I'm on the smaller team, flag away folks, I don't need a tissue, I'm a big boy, that's what a ctf server is for...

well it burns mee up when the larger team repeatedly captures the smaller teams' flag (without asking) and then make a big stink about how good they are everytime . i can ignore the boasting , but many times my teammates can't , and it leads to bickering an frustration and demoralization . and the weaker team gets weaker , or just gives up . which then forces mee to quit , or sit out at that point .
bamf u r one of the best players i know , and i would easily count u as two players :)
but not everyone is as good as u r . for an average player like mee(and alot of peeps) it is no fun to be abused like that . sure i like a challenge , but when u r faced with impossible odds and constant humiliating losses , it takes the fun out of the game (try playing with a team of newbies , against a larger veteran team , an u wil find this out real quick) .
when its more aggravating than it is enjoyable , then its time to throw in the towel .
yes i remember that this is a CTF game ., and capturing the flag is what ur suppose to do . but i have more fun when everyone is having fun .
and most important i try not to forget the Golden Rule in every aspect of my life . and this applies to BZflag as well . "Do unto Others , as U would do to Urself" .

p.s.- life is not alwayz fair , and neither iz BZflag . but when u have the chance to make things fair , or more fair , then it is worth putting urself out or in 4 the benefit of others . 1 person can make a difference .

Death Barrel · Post by **Death Barrel** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:58 pm

you know what??? who cares if players are CTFing flags w/ uneven players....lol
Is the match official??? i did not think so....what you players need to do is start playing more league matches! I see this all the time...there are players out there that are just playing and they have teammates online but they don't ask for matches. It is those kinda players who are dragging the league down with them

You players joined the leage to play more and have matches! Well i never see this going on anymore, it used to be my team HoW could get like 5-7 matches a day!! But this !NEVER! happens anymore. You are complaining about things that really don't matter, while you should be out there matching!!

Well,that is just the way i feel, and it is very frustrating. Last time i checked HoW plays like 55% of all matches played in the league.... am i the only one who sees this?? lol
TLZ is up there also and they are doing the best they can, i am sure a bit more effort could be made there but hell, i can't complain about them or the other top teams....they got where they are today because they "play matches" there is a ton of teams out there that have never had a match.... what is wrong with you guys? you just go out there, make a team and say "F" it, i am done, i just wanted to make a team to look cool, and never play matches! We never see you guys out there asking for matches or posting for matches, or even making an effort for that reason. I think that is a big waste of a page to have so many teams who just don't make any damn effort at all! What the hell is it gonna take to get this league reborn??
Maybe i am not doing enough, maybe i should be out there asking for even more matches than i already do. Maybe i should stand on my street corner and hold up a sign!
hehe, well, some of you guys agree with me that this is not "just a game!" for some of us it is a way of life

and on the battle field is where we find true happieness. I can name quite a few who feel the same way, and thank god they are on my team!

GET YOURSELVES TOGETHER!!!! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR????

PS: this may have been a bit off topic..... srry

Rebel Chikorita · Post by **Rebel Chikorita** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:03 pm

:::::roll:::::

ok who hid BBs' Ritalin pills ... LoL

j/k

well some people like to play casually or just for practice . but even a casual game should be on even terms... not making a big deal outta it .
as far as official matches... depends on what mood im in , and if i have the time . i dont mind playin a match , esp. if im having a good BZ day

(matches can b exhausting , because i alwayz give my "110%" so i can usually play only 1 or 2 aday )

Death Barrel · Post by **Death Barrel** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:12 pm

Rebel Chikorita wrote:ok who hid BBs' Ritalin pills ... LoL

(matches can b exhausting , i can usually play only 1 or 2 aday)

lol, well....you say this but how come it is not happening?? Hell Fire!!! HoW will not only play you these 2 matches a day, but we will guarentee them!!! Now, whats stopping you?

Rebel Chikorita · Post by **Rebel Chikorita** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:24 pm

BB lets stop playing forum tag an letssss go playyy sum BZ nowww!! heehe
where r ya??

c u on ducati ;)

Death Barrel · Post by **Death Barrel** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:48 pm

sounds like a plan

ok i am still at work, but i am about to leave and come home to my beatiful wif.....oops i mean BZMachine

cu in about 1.5hrs

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:04 am

I would like to join a team but it never worked out and I don't have alot of time. So my main matches are just signing on ducati or quols server and playing with everyone. I don't mind uneven captures unless the teams are unfair in skill.

Death Barrel · Post by **Death Barrel** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:01 pm

ah, my bad!! i though you were on a team...so all you guys that aren't on a team either disregard my comment or creat a new team! HoW would love to play you

widowmaker.....ask around there are quite a few players out there that are not on teams....talk to them and you guys get together and make a new one

if you have any questions about it feel free to ask me

i can help you guys out on setting one up

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:50 pm

Thanks bb but I don't currently have the time. Maybe in the spring.

Death Barrel · Post by **Death Barrel** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:43 pm

sounds good, i hope to see you on a team and matching in the Spring

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