Regarding the "Thief"

Gerbil · Post by **Gerbil** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 am

My thoughts on the "thief" flag...

It's fine in an FFA to snatch someone's flag not on your own team.

In bunny hunt I think it is fine to steal flag of another rogue. Like they aren't already getting ready to shoot you soon anyway? How often have I been followed by a player who know I will soon be the rabbit and he wants to kill me as soon as I change. All is fair there.

In CTF it is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY unacceptable to snatch a flag from a teammate. It's the antithesis of that sort of game.

What's everyone else think?

Gerbil · Post by **Gerbil** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:22 am

Why am I still just a corporal!!??

Don't make me come over there!

toaster · Post by **toaster** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:26 pm

I disagree - any rogue who steals a flag from me in bunny hunt deserves to die, and I shoot them. After all, you're temporarily on the hunt team, and the only reason they stole your flag is so they can use it against you later. Tough. They took it just to kill me at a later opportunity, I won't give it to them.

In fun team play, I've shot one player who took my flag, laughing at him, cause we'd been bantering about it before he did it. In serious team play, though, I wouldn't want to kill them, but it is rather poor behaviour. Unless it's accidental.

Now, stealing flags from the rabbit, or from the other team, is quite acceptable.

Gerbil · Post by **Gerbil** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:39 pm

So bad to take a teamies flag but what about driving behind a high scorere when he gets GM or Laser because u know he'll be bunny next?

How's that any more fair?

(I think both tactics are legit by the way)

toaster · Post by **toaster** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:22 pm

You're right, you know. If you follow the line of thought "if the game allows it to happen, it's fair play," then tk is also okay. However, some behaviour is just poor sportsmanship. The folks that make it a habit of following the non-rabbit players are just losers, in my mind, like tks, but perhaps not as bad, just looking for easy kills.

There was a whole string on this, about rabbit modes. Go to this forum => http://bzbb.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?t=1309

(okay, so it's a couple months old. i'll probably get in trouble for telling you to check it out, cause you might decide to post.

SGI · Post by **SGI** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:28 pm

I hate hunting poor animals...sit there with your $5000 rifle and shoot ...jump down and fight with a knife.
Waiting in the back and shoot to the rabbit

....jump in the meddle of the battle field and fight.
I love when I'm playing with good player and not with a "waiting" tank.

Razzberry · Post by **Razzberry** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:23 pm

Ok, sportsmanship-wise, it's bad form to steal a teammates flag in CTF. All other game types really don't apply (especially since I hate team players on FFA servers, be warned), so using Thief in other style games is fair play.

That being said, I have run into occasions where I've had complete fools for teammates in CTF, completely WASTING the advantage of a flag or even worse, delivering it to the other team thanks to their incompetence (especially Genocide). In these cases, I've been known to steal the flag just to keep it away from the opposing team, weather my teammate likes it or not. I usually try to explain, but most newbs don't get it anyway.

Does that make me naughty?

SGI · Post by **SGI** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:47 pm

No asbolutely.....

I accept that theory ..kill one to save a battalion

toaster · Post by **toaster** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:52 pm

sorry, SGI, but i disagree. you have players on your team on public servers, you treat them as full teammates. they're never going to learn and get better if you take away their hard lessons. if you're so concerned about their failure, remember that you were a newb once and you made mistakes and you had the opportunity to learn from them. why should you deny someone else the opportunity? perhaps you're taking the game too seriously.

personally, i enjoy ffa teams. the only difference between that and ctf is the team flag itself. ffa, you're a team trying to kill everyone else. ctf, you have an extra objective. i've played in some ctf games where the players would rather just shoot everyone than concentrate on flag capture. in that case, it's ffa in a ctf map. 'nuff said.

SGI · Post by **SGI** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:04 pm

First ...I can accept that theory, I never used (I did for mistake and asked sorry about it).
And I'm not going to use in a future......some newbie they need to learn and I dont care if they are going to jump when a Genocide flag is waiting behind the wall (I did).
Accept=to give admittance or approval to
Use=the act or practice of employing something
My English is better

BTW I was a newbie and I'm still a newbie every day I make a mistake ....classic one is to kill your teammate when is carrying the enemy flag.

Chestal · Post by **Chestal** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:52 pm

Hmm, couldn't the thief flag be used to transfer a team flag from one player in your team to another in CTF style? If there are anough thief flags this would be a means for faster transportation of the flag, not sure if it's feasible, though.

EvilChickenNugget · Post by **EvilChickenNugget** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:39 pm

Now that would be an interesting strategy. I could imagine a team searching for thief flags, and doing a fireman bucket thing with the flag, passing it across the field.

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:53 pm

gerbal, you'll be a Corporal till you post 13 more posts

toaster · Post by **toaster** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:52 pm

Chestal wrote:Hmm, couldn't the thief flag be used to transfer a team flag from one player in your team to another in CTF style? If there are anough thief flags this would be a means for faster transportation of the flag, not sure if it's feasible, though.

Okay, well, I admit, I did do this once. I had a teammate backed into a tight spot with an sw approaching - he had no place to go, so i theived the enemy flag from him and kept running. Died a few seconds and only a little closer to the base, though.

The odds of that happening are slim. Maybe sitting on base and seeing someone get close to in range with someone else hot on their tail...

I can think of one world where I'd want the opportunity, and I don't have trouble with the enemy flag getting stolen from me in the leapfrog approach. After all, capture the flag is the mode of play then. But, this is entirely different from stealing a weapon from your teammate.

BTW, SGI, I knew I was only responding partly to your post and partly to Razzberry's but didn't get that marked clearly in my last post. Sorry to leave that misunderstanding.

Gerbil · Post by **Gerbil** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:05 pm

Thirteen--I CAN DOOOOO IT!

For my next rank I would like to be known a "Rodent Ravager" or else "Lord of the Board"--I'll let you pick

Anyone besides me ever shoot an incompetent to keep them from getting nailed by genocide or carrying team flag to the enemy base?

I have and will again--though it is a last resort.

Yes Toast, best not to tell me about old posts. I am a gerbil and am very nearsighted plus with four feet and a tail scurrying over keys while I read screen I make a few errrors and might reply unawares.

toaster · Post by **toaster** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:09 am

Gerbil wrote:For my next rank I would like to be known a "Rodent Ravager" or else "Lord of the Board"--I'll let you pick

Lord is too ostentatious. Don't need all them airs. How about getting in a game with us? We'll be happy to call you "Ravaged Rodent." Arh-Arh !

Gerbil · Post by **Gerbil** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:26 am

Mock not the rodent! "Attack the gerbil, reap the droppings."

Maybe "Imperial Forum Commander"

SGI · Post by **SGI** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:42 pm

Toaster wrote:
Okay, well, I admit, I did do this once. I had a teammate backed into a tight spot with an sw approaching - he had no place to go, so i theived the enemy flag from him and kept running. Died a few seconds and only a little closer to the base, though. The odds of that happening are slim. Maybe sitting on base and seeing someone get close to in range with someone else hot on their tail...

I can think of one world where I'd want the opportunity, and I don't have trouble with the enemy flag getting stolen from me in the leapfrog approach. After all, capture the flag is the mode of play then. But, this is entirely different from stealing a weapon from your teammate.

That isnt a bad move ...your teammaate is sorrounded and you can do that, expeccialy with CTF

Toaster wrote:
BTW, SGI, I knew I was only responding partly to your post and partly to Razzberry's but didn't get that marked clearly in my last post. Sorry to leave that misunderstanding......next time I'm going to banned you

JK, not problems

Noodleroni · Post by **Noodleroni** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:26 pm

I think any tactic that isn't a cheat or isn't discouraged by knocking your score down (i.e. TK'ing) is a valid tactic. 'Nuff said

SGI · Post by **SGI** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:33 pm

With a CTF yes can be a tactic.....
If the flag is going to be captured and my team is going to blow up, I can kill my teammates (tks) in this way they can rejoint faster.

toaster · Post by **toaster** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:29 pm

Gerbil, looks like we both just got promoted today. You made your next goal!

Me, I got it 'cause I don't know when to shut up.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 pm

I tried the thief before it was allowed onto normal servers, (thru TLZ's test client) and I found the thief a very annowing yet helpful tool if you want to get rid of a camper.

Gerbil · Post by **Gerbil** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:59 pm

I didn't even notice.

After I post this I will see what lofty status I have attained.

Congrats yourself fellow superior being.

Fear us puny mortals!

SpyroVII · Post by **SpyroVII** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:39 pm

Umm.... Do you mean that we should all fear you because you are puny mortals or that we should fear you because *we* are puny mortals.....

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:48 pm

your going to stay a sarge for a while man

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Regarding the "Thief"

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