BzFlag is dying

All things BZFlag - no [OT] here please
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JeffM
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by JeffM » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:53 am

geno has nothing to do with dwindling numbers, that's simply the failure of the game to keep up with modern expectations.

A simple solution for geno is to remove it from the game, and implement it as a custom flag in a plugin, then the few servers that want it can have it and can balance it as they see fit.

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by War Pig » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:56 pm

The existance of the geno flag in the game is not the problem. It is poor implementation of the geno flag by map makers, and the abuse of it by a few players that causes the issues. Removing it from the game and implementing it as a plugin seems like unnecessary work that just brings us back to where we already are.

Even though there have been a LOT of great reasons to remove it from the game posted in this thread, it seems the maps that include the geno flag are the ones that get played most.

I have said before that changing the risk/reward profile of playing geno may be the solution. The goal should be to make it a strategic flag, rather than just a fast, easy way to get a high score. One way to do that: Award 1 point for the geno player's kill, and subtract all the deaths from the player that got hit.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by blast » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:28 pm

War Pig wrote:One way to do that: Award 1 point for the geno player's kill, and subtract all the deaths from the player that got hit.
So new players that get targeted by geno users will see their score drop by 10 to 20 points at a time?
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by all » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:16 pm

This is a excellent idea! That minimizes the hassle to explain why to /poll ban the noob ;)

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by War Pig » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:40 am

blast wrote:
War Pig wrote:One way to do that: Award 1 point for the geno player's kill, and subtract all the deaths from the player that got hit.
So new players that get targeted by geno users will see their score drop by 10 to 20 points at a time?
Yeah. New players don't generally obsess over their score. They are just trying to play. They won't be overly concerned about a 10 point drop for one kill. Once they become score-aware, it becomes an incentive to avoid the geno players, or learn to kill them.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Dr Robotnik » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:38 am

BZFlag is an interesting beast. Its very fun to play, if your experienced and dont ragequit in 5 minutes. Its obsolete yet continues to live on with code going back 10-15 years still running inside of it.
To me, the problem is not the dated graphics. Look at Minecraft as an example.
The problem is entirely solvable! Technical issues should go on the backburner until a few minor yet major things are finished.

1. Post a "Dummies guide to BZFlag" right on the front page. This will list out steps for registration, basic player stuff, etc. Should be less than 1 page and have pretty pictures so the noobs dont fall asleep.
2. Grassroots Advertising. Tell about it to your friends on BookFace and Twitderp. I have a community of 20 people in Minecraft that are looking for some other things, I am sure I could get 2-4 people to come try BZ.

Thats all I can think of...
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Bambino » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:06 am

What I would do is put a "COMPLETE IDIOTS STARTER GUIDE TO BZFLAG" In the start menu....like they can't start the game without reading the complete boiled down basics...I would imagine it would save a few problems

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Gerbil » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:04 am

Bambino wrote:What I would do is put a "COMPLETE IDIOTS STARTER GUIDE TO BZFLAG" In the start menu....like they can't start the game without reading the complete boiled down basics...I would imagine it would save a few problems
That's what i did when I first started and it helped tremendously. At that time, no one had bothered to do it. I didn't discuss how to do anything other than play the game and know some strategy. Is still a good idea.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by yosef » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:03 am

How about completely overhauling the layout of the HELP option on the main page? Change the text from size 8 to size 14, introduce colors, lists, headings, and give some simple strategies for different flags, tips on gameplay, and a caution against ragequitting.

I would drop everything to write something that could be incorporated into the next release.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by blast » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:58 am

yosef wrote:I would drop everything to write something that could be incorporated into the next release.
Ah, so you're volunteering? ;)
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Flag Alert!!! » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:41 pm

As an experienced Genocide user, I have to respectfully disagree with you, Duane. While there are some G users who purposely hunt down a weak member of the opposite team so as to not have to go after the stronger ones, there are also G users (me, Joop, Mari, etc.) who find G a sport and go after the best player on the opposite team for fun. And frankly, you don't need G to have an extremely 1-sided game. If you go to Castle Warfare, it's typically 1-sided with the weaker team constantly leaving because they spawn and die and spawn and die. If you go to ziggurat, you can just get GM in there and camp away. Even with the change that GM isn't on those towers anymore, it still happens, and forces new players to quit. The problem is the spawnkillers who can't reign themselves in so they just camp for an hour and ruin the game for others. It's simple enough: I'm not asking people not to camp at all. That's part of the game. Just like Genocide is. But limit yourself. If you've been camping for awhile, just leave their base to give them a chance to actually spawn and live for more than 2 seconds. Don't ruin the fun for everyone. While G can compound this camping and make it even worse, it can also end the camping simply. So if someone escapes from the spawnkilling carnage and goes and gets G, they can effectively kill 1 spawnkiller and give THEIR team a chance. So spawnkilling and camping are the problems typically, not Genocide, because Genocide can SAVE your team from spawnkillers, even if it can also ADD to the spawnkilling.

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Gerbil » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:33 pm

So here's the list for new players of flags you shouldn't use:
-Laser
-Stealth
-Shockwave
-Guided Missile
If you happen to get one of these flags ,shoot with it--on the ground only--no more than three times then drop it. These flags are easily abused and you must always avoid appearing to be abusing them--even if you just got one of the flags and haven't even fired with it yet. Some maps are optimized to have camping spots. These maps should never have been created in the first place and if you are on one, never go to one of the perches there. In fact, it's best if your tank never rests on ANY elevation higher than the ground unless you have no flag and then only on heights not above one jump. If even then you are really getting lots of kills you should drive more slowly, turn predictably and occasionally stand still so other players can hit you. You of course are never qualified to decide if it's within a map's designed play to camp or if you are abusing flags--other, wiser players will tell you how to play in these circumstances.

The small number of chronic abusers and the potential for abuse far outweigh any response limited only to requiring other players to have to kill you or play on a different style server. Remember, other people are here to have fun and they can't if you kill them.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by yosef » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:38 pm

blast wrote:
yosef wrote:I would drop everything to write something that could be incorporated into the next release.
Ah, so you're volunteering? ;)
Yes :). Now, when will releases come out? Oh, no set date. I forgot.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by JeffM » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:05 pm

what does it have to do with a release? it's a web page.

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by yosef » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:33 pm

By main page, I meant the HELP option on the first screen that shows up when you start BZ, but the same could be transferred as a web page too.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by JeffM » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:21 pm

again what does it have to do with a release, write it up and submit it, it has to go in the code before a release

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Ripper » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:32 pm

It seems this this thread became GENO-Apparent. BZFlag isn't all about the genocide flag, as you all should know. This thread was made I believe to comment on why you think BZF is dying, and I don't see much relevance comparing G to a Dead BZFlag project in the short-run. In the long-run, yes, I agree with most of you.

Problems I see:

Player Standard - the player standard has somewhat slackened when all the newer players came in, and the older, more disliking players stayed. Thus, new players died more frequently, left, and the BZ User end slacked to an embarassing total - It shames me to see Strayer put only a y-max value of 150 on his Player Graph.

Advertising - not enough newer players come in, simple as that.

Leagues - Leagues aren't given a quite friendly basis, may I remind you that the GU League helps keep BZFlag alive. But, as everyone knows, nothing lasts forever. Some of the veteran members of the Leagues are too... harsh, may I put it as that way somehow, to the newer players. New players try to join a league, and then, sadly, leave when they stand no chance against more skilled players. Yes, this is a league issue and not a BZFlag overall issue.

Network/Server Lag/Latency - People lag, people complain, it's so simple. It's not really the map quality that lags the computer, no, it's the server distance and maintaining. Try to upgrade the servers, get better lag, which means by the way, better gameplay.

Opposing Thoughts - People are spending to long in conflicting thoughts that we don't get anything done. "We should do this!" - "No, that idea stinks, try this! :P"

Instead of twiddling your thumbs thinking of something that'll work, try acting out on a gut feeling. Genocide, by the way, is a great flag when used accordingly in the right way. Overpowered flags shouldn't be handed over to extremely popular maps, as it'll discourage new players to continue playing.

^ Tutorial.

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Gerbil » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:12 am

I have noticed a "look down your nose" attitude from a few of the league committed players--something I had never seen before. There are also a few players who are obsessed with their kill ratios and are extremely insulting or rude when someone kills them "too much". Others camp a server all day to make the "top fifty" and are less interested in interactive play than simply "hitting their quota"--usually with geno and extreme camping sprees between frequent and long absences.

People come on to have fun. When they run into the professional jerks it is a huge turn-off. I have recently had a couple of players who started years after me say, "I should join a league if I want to be taken seriously". In the past several weeks I've been coming on with different pseudonyms just to see how players behave when they don't recognize you as a regular. It's quite a difference.

lolwut?
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by MonsterMan++ » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:53 am

I don't like to post much anymore because I used to be one of those forum douchebags >.<

Today I logged on and there were 47 servers I'm guessing meaning that just about everyone has pulled the plug and the only players left were trolls and complete newbies. Is BZFlag actually dead now because I don't see any of the hundreds of friends I've made in the decade I've played anymore :(
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by blast » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:27 am

MonsterMan++ wrote:I don't like to post much anymore because I used to be one of those forum douchebags >.<

Today I logged on and there were 47 servers I'm guessing meaning that just about everyone has pulled the plug and the only players left were trolls and complete newbies. Is BZFlag actually dead now because I don't see any of the hundreds of friends I've made in the decade I've played anymore :(
No, that just means you're still using BZFlag 2.0.x. We're on BZFlag 2.4.x now, so you need to upgrade to see the 2.4.x servers. There are about 240 2.4.x servers as I post this.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by MonsterMan++ » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:31 am

Thank god for that :O

I haven't been on for months so I was so confused :D
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by Bambino » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:43 am

Looks like someone needs to set the old client to say "Please upgrade to the new bzflag release...."
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by blast » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:12 am

It already is set.. :P At least for Windows clients, which is the only one that can auto-upgrade. And all of 2.0 should show that 2.4 is out in the MOTD, but of course nobody reads that.
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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by nic9 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:16 pm

Re: BzFlag dying

It's the advertising part - If I could I'd take video clips and splice them together with music and show people how hard and fun this game can be. Everyone here has epic moments and a screen shot doesn't always convey that.
Hmmmm maybe just a tripod and some tunes.

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Re: BzFlag is dying

Post by joevano » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:13 pm

nic9 wrote:Re: BzFlag dying

It's the advertising part - If I could I'd take video clips and splice them together with music and show people how hard and fun this game can be. Everyone here has epic moments and a screen shot doesn't always convey that.
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