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Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:27 pm
by Danji
saw the grenade flag and that was really creative, so I wanted to call on all creative thinkers to make more creative flags.

I was thinking a juggernaut type flag instead of shield taking two shots to die it would take 5?

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 6:21 pm
by ZE BOZZ
That you could do just by adjusting some server variables. It wouldn't take a new flag so to speak. I like the idea though. Maybe a new play style of a juggernaut rabbit on a rabbit hunt?

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:18 am
by blast
I do not believe there is a server variable that does that.

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:57 am
by ZE BOZZ
Now that I look at it, a multiple shot shield is on the rejected flag list.
http://wiki.bzflag.org/Flag_ideas/Rejected

What I was referring to about server variables was _endShotDetection
http://wiki.bzflag.org/Server_Variables

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:33 pm
by blast
_endShotDetection is tuning option for a cheat detection check, not something that makes a shield take more hits.

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:34 pm
by JeffM
The server can't prevent a tank from dying so it's not really something that can be done with a custom flag. The best it could do would be to give it a fresh shield flag on every hit, but that has timing problems.

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:10 pm
by ZE BOZZ
blast wrote:_endShotDetection is tuning option for a cheat detection check, not something that makes a shield take more hits.
From the description I came to understand that it had something to do with the amount of shield hits.
Wiki wrote:This setting controls how many "end shot" messages can be sent without corresponding deaths (or other reasons, such as a shield drop).
My mistake.

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:46 pm
by JeffM
An "end shot" is when a client tells the server that a shot should be removed, ether by hitting someone, or just timing out.

It just is there to remove the shot from other people's screens. The choice of what to do when a tank is hit by a shot is handled by each individual client(the person hit) and is not controllable by any bzdb variable or server based plug-in.

If death was handled at a central place like the server, then we'd have a LOT fewer cheaters out there ;)

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:00 am
by optic delusion
You could do a multi-sheild plugin, but it would not work against two quick hits. Even in a best-case scenario (50ms lag) it would take a tenth of a second for the flag plugin to realize you lost the first shield, send you a new one, and the new one arrives at it's destination. You could get hit multiple times in a tenth of a second. There's also the strong possibility of packets arriving out of order or getting lost completely.
It might work a lot better on a LAN game with much lower lag and higher reliability, but playing over the internet, multi-sheild is just not viable. Anything that relies on "zapping" flags to players will suffer from these issues. I know from experience, because I've tried it several times.

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:36 am
by JeffM
Those would be the timing issues I mentioned :)

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:02 am
by ZE BOZZ
Ya, now I can see what you guys mean and why this type of flag is on the rejected flag list. I wish the reason, on the wiki, could be as specific as you guys made it. Not just "Rejected as a flag, because." so to speak.This is not the first time this type of suggestion has come up so I'm glad we have a little more clarification into the technicalities of the subject. I've always thought it a great idea, and it is! But unfortunately far to complicated to put in place. Thanks for taking the time to do that :D

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:12 am
by blast
The reasons here only apply to doing it as a plugin with the current flag implementation. It wouldn't be an issue if the flag was done as an actual flag in the game. It's just a design decision that we do not have a multi-hit shield flag, like like it's a design decision that tanks don't tilt.

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:11 pm
by JeffM
Yes, the rejected flag list is simply a list of flag ideas that we have said we will not make as part of the core game, basically they won't ever be built in and shipped with a release of the game.

Since BZFlag is open source ANYONE can make any flag they want, ether via plug-in or direct code modification. Plug-ins are handy because they are easy to distribute to multiple servers and generally don't require the client to update to a new version (they are protocol compatible with the shipping release).

The limitations we discussed previously all assumed you wanted to stay compatible with the current release like the other custom flag plug-ins. If you are willing to hack up the client and server you can do anything you want :) You just have to get your users to use your modified client and prevent unmodified clients from using your modified server (we have a feature that helps with this).

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:42 am
by TZBZ
I had an idea of a reverse Genocide flag.. when a player carrying the flag is shot, the shooter's whole team dies?

Re: Creative flag thinkers?

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:02 am
by blast