Ban without F12

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mike_o
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Ban without F12

Post by mike_o »

I'm sometimes accused of f12 abuse and have been short banned a couple of times. Yet I have never (!) used F12 to rapidly exit the game. On occasions, I have left the game (normally) when things were getting ugly, but never with F12. So what is this all about?

Is there an unwritten policy saying when you can leave the game and when not?
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blast
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by blast »

I'm assuming you are talking about Planet Mofo. If so, the issue is a just a custom plugin on a single server. The game provides no way to know how someone exited the game, so the plugin they are running just makes decisions based on extremely limited/vague information. My suggestion would be to play on a different server or complain about the plugin to the server owner (Optic Delusion).
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by optic delusion »

It's a custom plugin that detects when players leave quickly to avoid getting hit by genocide. It can detect F12, and it also detects players quickly leaving by the normal method. I don't want to get into details as to exactly how it works, but false positives are pretty darn rare. They do happen but they are rare. I have tested it myself on multiple occasions.
I am sorry if you got caught in a mosh, but I suggest you just ride out the short ban. This is better than everybody easily avoiding geno all the time.
Take a look at my Defender game mode concept.

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Re: Ban without F12

Post by Bullet Catcher »

Pressing the F12 key is just a shortcut for navigating through the menu and selecting Quit. In both cases the BZFlag client sends an orderly "I am leaving" message to the server before disconnecting, so the server can't really tell which method was used.
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by mike_o »

Optic and Bullet,

thank you. I probably leave too fast sometimes. Dare I ask you to define "quickly leaving by the normal method"?

Since I normally stay on when I'm are doing good, and tend to leave the game, when it's not going my way anymore, it'd be nice to know just how much notice I should give the game :wink:
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optic delusion
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by optic delusion »

I do not want to give details about exactly how it works because players will game the system. We run more than 20 plugins, and this is not the only one we keep secret. Most of them are available to all.
Take a look at my Defender game mode concept.

Thinking is not an automatic process. A man can choose to think or to let his mind stagnate, or he can choose actively to turn against his intelligence, to evade his knowledge, to subvert his reason. If he refuses to think, he courts disaster: he cannot with impunity reject his means of perceiving reality.
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by blast »

The plugin would likely only trigger if you leave while alive, so if you only quit while dead you'd probably be safe.
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Soft
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by Soft »

Got the same today, accidentally closed the client, when trying to rejoin was short banned :.-)
How long am I banned ?
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by mike_o »

Optic Delusion wrote:I do not want to give details about exactly how it works because players will game the system. We run more than 20 plugins, and this is not the only one we keep secret. Most of them are available to all.
So basically we cannot be informed about the details of the log-out boundary, but we are fried when we pass the invisible line? This is really not OK.

Why not set up clear rules for when it's OK to leave the game and when it's not? How will players "game" that?? Or just add a well specified delay for leaving the game. Like when pausing. How can that be different?

And while you're at it, please respond to Soft's question above. It's all becoming a bit too "big brotherly"...
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by rye »

seems that whammo f12 ban is 5 hrs.
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by mike_o »

Just got F12 banned again. This time the last opponent had just left the server, and three players (me including) waited for someone to join. When that didn't happen, I extited (the normal way) and tried re-joining on the opposite team. Immediately banned for "F12 abuse".

What BS is this??
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by optic delusion »

Very sorry about your mistaken ban. However,
I say it over and over, If you plan on instantly rejoining, wait until you are dead before leaving, and this will never happen.
The alternative is people constantly F12'ing to avoid geno which is far worse than the occasional misfire, meaning we have to take the lesser of two evils.
And it really is quite rare that it mistakenly hits you. I rejoin to keep teams fair all the time, and I am not immune, and it's banned me exactly once in my entire history.

Also, it keeps a list, and now you are on that list. Be extra careful until after awhile the list clears itself.
Take a look at my Defender game mode concept.

Thinking is not an automatic process. A man can choose to think or to let his mind stagnate, or he can choose actively to turn against his intelligence, to evade his knowledge, to subvert his reason. If he refuses to think, he courts disaster: he cannot with impunity reject his means of perceiving reality.
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kierra
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by kierra »

In a nutshell: If you plan on instantly rejoining to balance teams, etc, wait until you are dead before leaving, and that should avoid you being whammo'd.
That may entail you self-killing or allowing yourself to be killed.
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by mike_o »

I've felt for a long time that I'm on a (black) list. Now it's confirmed and official :p

I also feel that that - after a certain point of success - I keep getting all the crappy flags. But I'm sure that´s only my imagination....?
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by kierra »

You're not on any blacklist that I know of, mike_o :)
Just DIE before leaving the server to balance. Can't say this enough, dearie
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by Apocalypso »

I'll give a secret because there are admins here with itchy trigger fingers and scripts that just don't care. It is NOT rare that this happens. Maybe infrequently but not rare.

Just announce your intentions as best you can. Say something like ...

"Ok, I am planning to leave. It looks like green team (I'm on red team in this example) is carrying the flag for a cap. I'll wait til you either cap or drop. Ok, you got destroyed or Ok, you capped. I am now leaving. GG. BBL."

I know, it's silly. Yes, the scripts to try to detect these things are silly too. But, avoiding shots or imbalancing teams to screw people over is even worse. There is really no other solution atm, so this is the only thing one can do. And guess what, you can still get banned by accident even if you announce your intentions. LOL. Such is life.
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by Apocalypso »

kierra wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:24 pm Just DIE before leaving the server to balance. Can't say this enough, dearie
I used to think this worked all the time but it does not unfortunately but if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will come along to correct me. :D
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optic delusion
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by optic delusion »

The F12 ban has nothing to do with Team Flag capture.
It bans when it suspects you F12 to evade genocide.

Furthermore, leaving just before a capture doesn't really do any good. The bounty is calculated at team flag pickup, not the point of capture.
Take a look at my Defender game mode concept.

Thinking is not an automatic process. A man can choose to think or to let his mind stagnate, or he can choose actively to turn against his intelligence, to evade his knowledge, to subvert his reason. If he refuses to think, he courts disaster: he cannot with impunity reject his means of perceiving reality.
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by Apocalypso »

optic delusion wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:44 am The F12 ban has nothing to do with Team Flag capture.
It bans when it suspects you F12 to evade genocide.

Furthermore, leaving just before a capture doesn't really do any good. The bounty is calculated at team flag pickup, not the point of capture.
I don't see how people don't understand this.

Also, I see people dropping the team flag to deny the killer his "points". That is pure evil.
"People don't think it be like it is but it do."

I am the GREAT APOC!!! :twisted:
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novembre
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Re: Ban without F12

Post by novembre »

In my experience, players leaving just before a capture do affect the amount of points rewarded, even if they do so after their team flag has been picked up. That is, if some of the opponents leave, the reward will be negative, or reduced. On the other hand, as you wrote, if someone joins the opponent team after the team flag has already been picked up, the reward will be calculated at the moment of the pickup.
Personally, I set Options > GUI settings > Always show team score: On, so that I can easily check before capturing.

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