wings

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sid6.7
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wings

Post by sid6.7 » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 pm

hmmm...

im thinking that the new wings flag might be a tad too much
when deployed with other flags...from what i can see and after
playing about 1 hour with it..it was almost impossible to kill
without another WG flag, even GM and SW had diffculty handling it...

havent seen the wiki yet but there needs to be some kind of
limit for this flag...just touching a surface aint enough. i myself
went 50-5 with it in just a few minutes.

its kinda like legal cheating...yes after a few weeks or so
people will develop some ways to handle it but i really
doubt it will impact it overall...

did we really think about the impact on this one?

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Post by The Gecko » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:47 pm

I too think the wings can be a little too much sometimes. I really like the wings, but maybe if they were a little tougher to handle it would be better.

Ideas:

-A lot more momentum. So you can't jerk out of the way of incoming bullets.
-Momentum in the "flap." If your falling and you "flap" your wings you continue falling for a moment before going upward.
-Slower flying speed? I don't know if people would like this.
+A good thing that could be added to wings is gliding. When you drive off a structure you glide to the ground instead of fall. This could also be a hinderence if you're trying to pinpoint something.
-This could be a little too much: If you run out of flaps, then you fall to the ground and die.


Any other ideas?
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Post by wegstar » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:49 pm

Good servers that have the wings flag usually have something to check its power :) Such as a shot limit for it, and longer GM range to hit it, etc. You were probably on a bad server :)
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Post by The Gecko » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:50 pm

We were on secretplace.
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Post by Scorch » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:54 pm

u can set momentum for wings already.

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Post by The Gecko » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:57 pm

You can set momentum on the "flaps?"
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Post by Scorch » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:59 pm

no but on moving i think its /set _wingsSlideTime

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GM was adjustable, not anymore?

Post by tadd » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07 pm

in 1.11.28 you could set the _gMissileAng. If you set it to 2 or 3 the GMs would turn very tight curves which let it counter Wings. I think in my map the Wings will not be effective at fighting against GM equipped tanks. (I'm still busy making my map 2.0 compatible) It will still be popular because it is so much fun. Also Wings would be a good counter to Stealth and Shockwave. Perhaps on other maps this will also be true. Definitely setting a shot limit to Wings will be useful. I set the inertia (WingsSlideTime) to 4 as I recall and that makes WG equipped tanks slide around as you turn corners. It is still useful for touring.

You can affect the jump count, wings gravity, and wings jump speed and tailor the way the tank behaves. If you set the jump counter to 1, jump speed to 0, and gravity to -.1 or so, the winged tank won't go up, but will glide really well.
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Post by The Gecko » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:10 pm

What map are you working on?
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Post by RPG » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:23 pm

Also you can limit the number of flaps wings has. with only 1 flap, wings becomes a normal, non-powerful flah.

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Post by The Gecko » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:24 pm

Yes, you can limit flaps, but limiting it to one flap takes all the fun out of it. Sort of...
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Post by Scorch » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:39 pm

oh no it doesnt! cause when u land on pyramid u can keeeep going up...

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Post by trepan » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:08 am

tip: with "_noClimb" set to 0, you can do that without wings

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Post by Workaphobia » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:24 am

I think Battle Hardened's first two ideas were good. Just a tiny bit of extra momentum for wings would make its motion a lot more predictable, giving the advantage to normal tanks that can change speed faster. I especially like the idea of making extra jumps apply an acceleration upward rather than instantly setting velocity to a higher speed. This would also make dogfights more interesting.

If these capabilities already exist as server-side variables, perhaps they should be enabled by default.
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Post by Scorch » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:34 am

trepan wrote:tip: with "_noClimb" set to 0, you can do that without wings
what do u mean trepan?

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Post by sid6.7 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:48 am

Battle Hardened wrote:I too think the wings can be a little too much sometimes. I really like the wings, but maybe if they were a little tougher to handle it would be better.
oh yeah you were there too you and me and someone else
were just kicking the cwap out folks...

it was too easy everyo once in awhile someone would get a
GM up too us but it was rare...

i see now a few boards have shot limits so that does help a tad...
battles solutions sound good the 2-3 percent gm turn thing would
possibley work plus the range...

i had played earlier against sbgodin now there is a guy that has been
practicing wg...he beat the cwap outa me he has that up/down
shot thing down perfect he also had the twist/turn thing down you
just couldnt turn fast enough...
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Post by Barneys » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:15 am

nothing to see here - move along.
Last edited by Barneys on Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by The Red Baron » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:21 am

all the ideas you have talked about have been thrown around by the devs and concerned players.

Alot of people voiced against and for this flag. In order to appease the masses, the devs gave the server owners the options of how to control this flag. So if you find the flag too powerful... Talk to the server owner. See if he would consider limiting it some more.
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map I am working on

Post by tadd » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:39 am

Battle Hardened wrote:What map are you working on?
I have been running it and working on it with the kaffeecontrol.de 5154 server which is presently listed on the 1.10.8 compatable server list. Since I found v1.11.28 I have been updating it to at least work on v2, if not really be a v2 map.
I am testing it on tadd.dyndns.org:5154 which is not listed anywhere. Feel free to connect to it. I do reboot it frequently when doing map work as I edit the map in a text editor with some scripting help.
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Post by rr » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:57 am

Honestly if I wanted to play Balloon Fight I would, but apparently the powers that be decided that a new way to play it was desperately needed so the Wings flag was introduced. As par usual, little thought was given to balancing this flags power making it arguabley the most powerful flag in the game which of course makes everyone want to use it constantly. I have been one of the few people who seem to care about having a balanced game and have complained about ST being too powerful in the past before SE was introduced. I suspect it will take a good while before anything is done about balancing WG vs other flags.

So when does the God Mode flag get added to the game?

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Post by Scorch » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:52 pm

God Mode, someone reported about someone else on my server using good mode. :lol-old: i suspect they ment God Mode and its a cheat sort of thing right?

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Post by QuantumBeep » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:05 pm

Geez, people. Game balancing is more the job of the server owner than the game designer. Think about it.

For one, Wings can be toned down plenty already using server variables, not to mention tweaking GM as a handy counterweapon. Besides, a winged tank with three or so jumps would actually be a sitting duck for an SW.

Any good flag can present an unfair advantage on a poorly designed server. I recall getting a score of 70-4 on an open-mapped server with no limit on Laser. Go learn BZflag strategy a little better.

The game developers put an awful lot of work into this game for nothing. Next person to whine about supposed "misfeatures" is gonna get slapped with a suitably large cod.
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Post by Scorch » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:06 pm

yeah but some owners like it extreme and do /set _wingsJumpCount 99999 r so :(

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Post by The Red Baron » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:23 pm

avoid those servers then.
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Post by Scorch » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:09 pm

no, because they are my friends servers, they kinda overloading everything and it makes for a fun style because there are more than half wings.

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