Wings

All things BZFlag - no [OT] here please
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Gerbil
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Wings

Post by Gerbil » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:31 pm

Hehe...saw this one coming. The Wings debate begins!

This is an addictive flag---slobber....sweat..must have....the precious. Word up: Get used to it--it's never going away. It's like letting your dog eat table scraps--there's no going back to regular dog food now.

That said, I think it's a great addition to the game. I am hearing the complaints about how overpowered it is but unless a large number of flaps are enabled it's not to difficult.

Once again, it's a question of world design and flag mix. If you build a platform 100 units high and have a single staircase going up to it and require a jump from the top of the stairs across a void to get to the platform and then only place one GM flag on the world--then GM is "too powerful" and needs to be removed from the game.

It's not the flag, it's the design of the environment in which it is used. Genocide is a horrible flag in CTF but by restricting it to a single shot--voila! It's a tactical situation requiring skill.

This flag introduces so many new ideas for worlds and strategies that it would be a total shame to lose it. So world makers, come up with some stuff. I am already working on a world that cuts the edge off Wings but lets players fly all over at the same time.
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Post by toaster » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:36 pm

That's pretty much the case with every flag, I think. Tiny is a very powerful flag to the right player. On viper.pimpi.org, Manu once ran up a score of 75:0 with Tiny. Strong flag, good player, hard to beat. Each flag has strengths. You're absolutely correct, world design and flag management go hand in hand.
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Post by RPG » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:42 pm

I assume every flag was hated at first, because they're too powerful. But then you look to the point of flags, and they're supposed to make you powerful.

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Yes...it has always been this way

Post by Gerbil » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:18 pm

Every flag is hated at first.

As the power of the One Flag grows, more and more are corrupted by it and covet its power. Soon strife and jealousy incite violence and..

Did I say that out loud? Sorry.

Burrow is still a lame flag. make it where you can right click to activate and deactivate it and it will be cool!
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Post by Legoguy » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:08 pm

I think the only flag that isn't really hated is Useless because it does absolutley nothing to hurt you and absolutley nothing to help you. Other than being something for TH to steal that isn't worthwhile stealing. There's really no need to hate that one, it just sits there and looks like a flag :P
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Post by So an So » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:09 pm

I LOVE wings!!! I play on secretplace and use the teleport that takes you up to about 1000 and then select a player on my radar and swoop down land right in front of him and kill him!!!!! I think 2.0.0 would be to much like 1.10.8 if it didn't have wings flags!! I would not play version 2.0.0 if it were not for wings flags!! :rock:

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Post by Memnarch » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:59 pm

No way! The change between 2.0 and 1.10.8 is tremendous! I won't go into details, though. BTW, I like Burrow, Gerbil, I have gotten serious points with it (As serious as my pitifful skills allow), it may be pretty weak, and have humongous counters, but it is often usefull to me.
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Post by toaster » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:54 am

I use burrow quite effectively, depending on features of the map. :)

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Post by So an So » Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:40 am

The change is alot but i would still only play 1.10.8 :|

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Burrow

Post by Gerbil » Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:27 am

Bah..."What is bur-row?" We likes our fish nice and freshess my precious.
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Post by Memnarch » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:03 am

As long as someone names a flag, another will contradict him, the argument would go on indeffinitely! So..... well, thats it, I guess.
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Wings, Useless

Post by The Purple Panzer » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:19 am

I think Wings is great, and I'd like to design some maps with distinct "aeries" to which players can fly. It will affect map design, I think
in a way which will take much more advantage of the third dimension.

And I like Useless. Sometimes I want to drive around and explore a map,
and accidentally pick up an OO on top of a building, and plummet down. Or hit a Shockwave flag when trying to shoot someone. If I've got Useless, it means I *won't* accidentally get another flag, and that is of some value.

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Yeah

Post by Gerbil » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:26 am

Hey, "OO" alredy takes advantage of the 8th dimension so why shouldn't we use the third--heck, we have several more dimensional slots to fill.
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Re: Wings, Useless

Post by toaster » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:08 pm

The Purple Panzer wrote:And I like Useless. Sometimes I want to drive around and explore a map,
and accidentally pick up an OO on top of a building, and plummet down. Or hit a Shockwave flag when trying to shoot someone. If I've got Useless, it means I *won't* accidentally get another flag, and that is of some value.
Not only does it prevent you from picking up a bad flag when you don't want one, it also has the distinct appearance of a patriotic sort (for Americans, anyway)

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Re: Burrow

Post by The Gecko » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:15 pm

Gerbil wrote:Bah..."What is bur-row?" We likes our fish nice and freshess my precious.
You just don't have any skill to go with burrow. :wink:
I've used burrow with good success, but like you said, a lot depends on the map.
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I was kinda kiddin'

Post by Gerbil » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:21 pm

Burrow is a usable flag, I was just joshin' a bit--even though it is a weak sister weapon made for girly-men.

The thing I don't like about it is if the map doesn't accomodate it and especially if there many players your life expectancy is short with it.

It is great when a teammate covers you and works in tandem (I think that happens once every seven-thousand years when all the planets line up in the solar system and dance the "conga")

It's funny wings were addded but concern for play balance with burrow was so great that it was given slow speed and turn and reduced radar.

It would be a really great flag if you could use it like Wings, "tab" to "burrow", then "tab" again to "unburrow"--it would be a great flag then.
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Post by Scorch » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:15 am

that would be kinda cheap but yeah, if it was kinda slow burrow (and or unburrow) time.

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Post by The Gecko » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:33 am

They should have called burrow, "bug" or "insect" something like that. Because you get squished when you're stepped on.

Burrow is only for strong manly men, who can dig through dirt and fight at the same time. :wink:

Why would you want to be able to "un-burrow?" If someone was trying to squish you, they would shoot you as you "un-burrowed" yourself.

What would be cool, is if you could jump while you had burrow, and could burrow into the tops of buildings.
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the "unburrow" would ...

Post by Gerbil » Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:16 am

...be a way to dodge.

You could fire a stream of bullets in a confined space and then burrow under them while everyone else died in the crossfire.

Somone would shoot at you and you could "duck" letting the person behind you get hit.

Lot's of things plus the ability to get your speed and turn back when needed so as to get a position.

Would be a really fun flag then.
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Post by So an So » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:23 am

I like the idea of using burrow like wings!! :lol-old:

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Post by Seraphim » Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:30 pm

I think that the wings flag can be a little overwhelming sometimes but I still think that it is a great flag.

I also like the idea of using burrow like wings.

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Guess what

Post by Gerbil » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:11 pm

I have almost finished the bzflag chair--I'll post it's location online soon.
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Post by freelancer » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:55 pm

Burrow is it the fourth dimension or is it Gerbils dimentia? :lol-old: :lol-old: :lol-old:
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BU

Post by bryjen » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:58 pm

A rodent that doesn't like burrow? Amazing :) I've seen it used to great effect on secretplace, a busy server with an open map. When burrowed, the tank square disappears from the radar. All that shows is a slightly-larger-than-normal flag indicator, which blends in nicely with the many other flags. This makes the burrowed tank stealthy in addition to hard to shoot.

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Foolish Mortal!

Post by Gerbil » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:02 pm

Anyone who has SEEN the movie "Buckaroo Banzai Acroos the 8TH Dimension"would KNOW that the "Oscillation Overthruster" is the device that allowed him to dimensionally travel through the 8TH dimension thus endangering the earth. therfore we are exploiting the Eighth dimension.

To have a flag interacting with the 4TH dimension would require it to affect time--which would be cool! Let's do the time warp again!!

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