23 inch moniter and WOW!!!!

All things BZFlag - no [OT] here please
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Dervish
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Post by Dervish » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:16 am

CannonBallGuy wrote:But its an iBook which clearly makes up for the lack of screen...

God, Why am I always right? :P
hmmm. Those two statements seem to contradict each other. ;)
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Post by baddmove » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:18 am

nah guys...i was just fooling around and got scolded..no more windows finger guy..oooops!!..er sorry

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Post by Guest » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:02 pm

Dervish wrote:
CannonBallGuy wrote:But its an iBook which clearly makes up for the lack of screen...

God, Why am I always right? :P
hmmm. Those two statements seem to contradict each other. ;)
Oooh. Another anti-mac dude.
All I can say to you is: http://www.apple.com/switch/
Seriously though. I use PCs regularly too, and Windows is just so bad. I personally can only think of one reason I might want to get a PC, to play games, but since I found BZFlag I have not played Any other game on a computer and I very rarely play on my PS2 these days. :P

Going back to screensize, wouldn't a projector be cheaper than the really big screens? Or do you get really crappy quality with those?

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Post by DTRemenak » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:11 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:Seriously though. I use PCs regularly too, and Windows is just so bad.
PC != Windows.

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Post by cosmos » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:33 pm

DTRemenak wrote:
CannonBallGuy wrote:Seriously though. I use PCs regularly too, and Windows is just so bad.
PC != Windows.
yeah it could be worse they could be using linux! :)

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Post by Guest » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:06 pm

DTRemenak wrote:
CannonBallGuy wrote:Seriously though. I use PCs regularly too, and Windows is just so bad.
PC != Windows.
Yeah.... And?
I just said Windows was crappy...

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Post by RPG » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:37 pm

A Mac could fall under the catagory of PC. PC == personal computer. I don't get why most Mac lovers call Windows computers PC's. A kid at my school does that. Even the Mac website calls all computers that aren't Macs "PC's".
Here are all the times the Mac website says "PC" on their "10 reasons to switch from a PC" page.
Can your PC laptop go coast to coast with just one battery?
Can your PC laptop automatically switch between Ethernet, dial-up and wireless connections on the fly?
When did you last configure a PC for the Internet?
It Works Effortlessly With PCs
Networking on a Mac is built on the same technologies used by PCs.
As a result, the Mac is at home on PC networks (or just about any other kind), making the business of sharing files and printers with PCs entirely painless.
And most new peripherals connect via USB or FireWire (two other industry standards), so you can use them with either PCs or Macs.
http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/

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Post by Guest » Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:11 pm

RPG wrote:A Mac could fall under the catagory of PC. PC == personal computer. I don't get why most Mac lovers call Windows computers PC's. A kid at my school does that. Even the Mac website calls all computers that aren't Macs "PC's".
So what?

What else would you call them?
"Non-Apple Macintoshes" ?
yeah.... right.

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Post by Dervish » Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:50 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:I use PCs regularly too, and Windows is just so bad.
CannonBallGuy wrote:I just said Windows was crappy...
Thanks for the factual and scientific observation. hehe, not. Any points to defend your negative opinion that you personally experience? ie: not some link to an Apple site or stating that something is "crappy".

I wouldn't say any of the major operating systems, including Windows, MacOS, or a UNIX flavor, is crappy. They each serve a purpose. I use Windows and FreeBSD. I wouldn't touch MacOS unless I had to for a job, because of one simple reason: MacOS is designed to run on proprietary hardware that you purchase from Apple or one of their affiliates.

The move from a proprietary core to Darwin for MacOS 10 was wise. Darwin is stable. That's about all the love I'd have for a Mac. :) You can run things like Yellow Dog Linux on Apple hardware, but you can't run Apple software on popular PC hardware (ie: x86 platform).

CannonBallGuy wrote:
RPG wrote: A Mac could fall under the catagory of PC. PC == personal computer. I don't get why most Mac lovers call Windows computers PC's. A kid at my school does that. Even the Mac website calls all computers that aren't Macs "PC's".
So what?

What else would you call them?
"Non-Apple Macintoshes" ?
yeah.... right.
hehehehe...
CannonBallGuy wrote:God, Why am I always right?
You're wrong. Just call them Windows PCs, or just Windows. PC is a general term. :)
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Post by DTRemenak » Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:58 pm

You know, Mac zealots annoy me, quite frankly. There is nothing intrinsically better about a Mac. Some things are better, yes. They look cool. The PowerPC is a nice clean architecture. Some things are worse. You're locked into apple hardware. Everything costs more. You don't have access to most of the source code, so you only get fixes when Apple decides you should have them.

It's all about tradeoffs. I like choice, so I use a PC. I can choose to run games by starting windows, or I can choose to have a stable, secure, open system. I can choose every bit of hardware I buy, and it won't cost me an arm and a leg. I can even design my own hardware, or write my own drivers.

"Why switch" is really a campaign targetted at the ignorant. Only thier 10th point actually holds any water when compared to a PC running an open operating system. They are aesthetically pleasing machines. For me, "it just works" is a weakness, not a strength. I want to know how and why it works, and Apple hides all that. When it doesn't work I want to be able to fix it. Sure it doesn't crash, OSX is a fine OS. My linux and BSD boxen don't crash either. XMMS is a fine media player, and iPods are overrated (yes, I've used one). Between the GIMP and Eye of Gnome, I can edit and manage all my images just fine. The list goes on.

I use both Macs and PCs regularly. I prefer PCs. OSX is a great OS, and it beats the pants off of both MacOS 9 and Windows. I applaud Apple for creating it. Is it better than an open system, either BSD or linux? No. There are plenty of advantages and disadvantages both directions, so don't ever say either one is "just better".

Oh, and just to clear things up, people who bash Macs annoy me too :) They're different platforms, not better and worse...why do differences always have to arouse animosity?

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Post by Dervish » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 pm

I hear ya DTR. So true, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Here's the points on Apple's "why switch" website...
Apple wrote:1. The Mac...It Just Works: "That’s because with a Mac, you’ll find all of the essentials built right in."
Hmmm. I guess this is otherwise worthless to the technically inclined. I have to do an install and setup for the non-MacOS platform I use, if I build my own PC and such. Big deal, I enjoy doing that. If you're a new user of PCs, any of the big names like Dell, HP, or Gateway ship their systems with everything working anyways. What's the difference?
Apple wrote:2. It Doesn’t Crash
hahahahahaha, roflol. They're obviously blind. I worked for a school distrcit in California years ago. I've seen my share of MacOS 10 crashes. They've crashed so hard that it was impossible to reboot them back into the desktop (they were stuck at some step after loading the core, locked in Darwin command mode). To say any computer system "doesn't crash" is a bold face lie. You muck up things enough, and you can get almost any PC to crash.

Also, I think they're comparing MacOS 10 to things like Windows 98, Windows Me, etc. Those older Microsoft operating systems were buggy and crashed often, especially because of memory leaks. Windows XP has been extremely stable for my daily use and I've never had a crash that forced me to reboot or caused file damage.
Apple wrote:3. It’s a Digital Jukebox
4. Delivers The Promise Of Digital Photography
5. Best Solution, In Fact, For All Things Digital
*yawn* Marketing spew. All operating systems can do this.
Apple wrote:6. Built To Go Everywhere — Because That’s Where You’ll Want It ... Can your PC laptop automatically switch between Ethernet, dial-up and wireless connections on the fly? Without a restart?
Yup, they're completely blind. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
Apple wrote:7. The Internet Is Integrated ... iChat AV ... iSight ... works seamlessly with AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) ... Yahoo Messenger ... MSN Messenger ... QuickTime.
Since when does a technically-minded individual want all this crap pre-installed? This should be a dead give-away that Mac is designed for those who are less computer-savy.
Apple wrote:8. Office is Office and then Some ... Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac OS X gives you Word, PowerPoint and Excel, all with the same familiar features and shortcut commands. ... Beyond Office, you’ll find you can run more than 10,000 applications designed specifically for Mac OS X. You can do anything you’d dream of doing on the Mac — from CAD to databases to finance.
And thus is the purpose of an operating system. Apple further stretches from their original "Switch" marketing scheme. Now instead of giving reasons, they're defending the usefulness of MacOS. Big deal, most operating systems have thousands of applications. Free UNIX flavor communities also have thousands upon thousands of volunteer coders who release new software all the time. That doesn't happen for Windows or MacOS. Besides, Windows has undeniably the widest array of commercial software available. MacOS is always trailing.
Apple wrote:9. It Works Effortlessly With PCs
Again... this is a reason to switch? hahaha. Yeah, a Yugo works effortlessly at a gas station, with the fueling pump, but that doesn't mean I'll trade in my car for one.
Apple wrote:10. It’s Beautiful
This should be their real marketing tool. The newest iBooks and G4 PowerBooks are sleek and attractive. Using their laptops are by far a better visual and tactile experience than Dell, HP, or some other major brand. But, should a computer user switch based upon this single valid point? Very doubtful, unless looks are more important to them than function and expandability.
Apple wrote:We think you owe it to yourself to experience a Macintosh first-hand.
I have. Every day for 2 years, I dealt with Macs from the old MacSE to the latest G4 PowerBook during my work at Palo Alto School District. Easy to maintain, but nothing I'd wish to own.

Another example...

My father is 71, and he would still prefer to use a PC running Windows over a Mac, even though he's noobish about computers. H's retired now, but he has used PCs and Macs while he was a Director of New Technology at a university.

He played admin (desk/policy type admin, not hands-on system administrator type) to both, and still he chooses Windows. He also understands the importance of UNIX-based operating systems to run secure and stable servers for Intranet operations. I think the university is still running Red Hat distributions of Linux.

...and my preferences have little influence over him.
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Post by orchid » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:52 am

Ok, to keep this thread from becoming just another "trolling each
others OS thread...."
:)
JeffM2501 wrote:for a large computer display you want the 2405FPW

1920x1200 pure DVI goodness.
This is the display I will be geting soon.
They are lovely, bz is great to play on it but more importantly the
there is so much space for apps! I never close anything now :)

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Post by L4m3r » Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:32 am

I_Died_Once wrote:I got a digital projector! I mainly use it to watch Monday night wrestling and DVD's on. I got a sheet I got ready to hand from the ceiling, and the projectors is one I can hook most anything to, from DVD, video game consols, and even an outlet for a computer monitor. I did hook my laptop up to it when I first got it and it worked. Now I want to hook up my PC to it and play BZ Flag on a screen the size of a movie screen.

Thanks guys. I'm gonna make a mess doing this.
I want one of those so bad, you have no idea. What model do you have and how much was it? they have some nice ones at school, but I've looked them up online and they're all really expensive.
Optimism is just a milder alternative to denial.

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Post by Guest » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:55 pm

To all those that are flaming me and macs for whatever reason, may it be ignorance or just to be difficult, don't bother.
As I said,
I use Macs and "Non-Mac Computers running Microsoft Windows" often, and Personally, I see no competition.
I can't think of one thing that Microsoft does better than ManOSX.
It's just my opinion. If you want to be a **** about it, go do it somewhere else because I have no time for those who will argue just because they want to be difficult, want to conform or are plain stupid.

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Post by DTRemenak » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:04 pm

Dang, did you really not read anything I wrote or did you just misunderstand it all?
Some things are better...Some things are worse
It's all about tradeoffs
There are plenty of advantages and disadvantages both directions, so don't ever say either one is "just better".
They're different platforms, not better and worse...why do differences always have to arouse animosity?
I like macs just fine. It's the attitude of the zealots that kills me.

Take this last post, for example:
To all those that are flaming me and macs
Two things to note here, first an inflation of the issue ("all those" is at most two people), second is the implication of aggressive action. This is a great psychological excuse to attack someone who's just being reasonable, by accusing *them* of playing the role of the aggressor. Logical Fallacy: Straw Man Argument *and* Argumentum ad Misericordiam.
... for whatever reason, may it be ignorance or just to be difficult, don't bother.
And an immediate dismissal of the opponent as ignorant and/or "difficult". Logical Fallacy: Argumentum ad Hominum.
As I said, I use Macs and "Non-Mac Computers running Microsoft Windows" often, and Personally, I see no competition.
Repetition of an unbacked opinion as if it were a basis for itself. Logical Fallacy: Circular Thinking.
I can't think of one thing that Microsoft does better than ManOSX.
Logical Fallacy: Argumentum ad Ignorantiam and/or Negative Proof. Just because you can't think of one doesn't mean one doesn't exist; you are not the greatest expert in all the world, no matter how much you may think you are.
It's just my opinion.
I prefer to have my opinions based on facts and experience, not fanboyism, ranting, and absurdities, thank you very much.
If you want to be a **** about it, go do it somewhere else...

Dodging the question.
...because I have no time for those who will argue just because they want to be difficult, want to conform or are plain stupid.
And ending up with a nice dose of Argumentum ad Hominem; actually a special subcase known as "Poisioning the Well".

That's why mac zealots (and most other zealots too for that matter) drive me nuts. Use logic, use arguments, not touchy-feely stuff or insults as soon as someone implies there's a fault in your "pet" product. Apple has brand loyalty, I'll tell you that. And it turns me off from them more than just about anything else.

Stop being ignorant, go learn something. Start with logic, then economics, maybe a little computer science and philosophy. You could use all of it.

Not to mention that it might make you consider getting rid of the
I also like getting free Ipods...
pyramid scheme.

Now, my good sir, this post is a flame. Watch who you accuse of flaming, lest he might actually make your accusations true.

And yeah, I expect it will probably be deleted. Oh well, hopefully you will have read it first and maybe even started getting a little hint of how ridiculous you sound.

Oh, and just to make one other thing perfectly clear: I don't have anything against macs or mac users in general. Just the zealots and fanboys.

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Post by Dervish » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:17 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:To all those that are flaming me and macs for whatever reason...
I'm not flaming you, I'm flaming Apple marketing. :) There's nothing wrong with Macs, as they have their place in the world and function quite nicely within that space.

Please step down off your antagonism stance with 'everyone' here. But feel free to go at it with DTR, as I enjoy reading it -- gives me a good chuckle. :)

...

Hey orchid, cozy looking workspace. :) What size is that flatscreen?
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Post by JeffM » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:45 pm

she has the display I linked to. that is how I first heard of it, it's the dell 24incher.

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