BZViolence?

All things BZFlag - no [OT] here please

Is BZFlag a violent game?

Yes
10
11%
No
54
59%
Depends
27
30%
 
Total votes: 91

The Vet
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BZViolence?

Post by The Vet » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:20 am

Last night, I was listening to a radio interview of Attorney Jack Thompson by Chatterbox Radio (See end of post). As a member of a gaming community, I had to raise an eyebrow to some of Thompson's claims.

Thompson has been well-known for is campaign against obscenity and violence in popular media. As of now, in light of recent gun and vehicle-related crimes, Thompson has come to bear his sights on videogames. He claims that such crimes are linked to video games. To support this, he states that not only were video games involved (in one way or another) in these crimes, but that there is scientific evidence that video games desensitize people to violence and train people to behave violently. His current proposal to try to abate such violent crimes is to restrict the production and sale of violent video games and limit their markets, as well as a possible ban of video games with questionable content.

However as a gamer who has played such questionable games, I must disagree with some of his claims and proposals.

His claim that videogames were involved in the lives of the gun and vehicle criminals and the immediate association with violent videogames as the crimes' cause seems a little overdrawn. I would like to point out that we are a community of gamers involved with a mildly violent videogame and I do not recall the last time one of us has ever committed a violent crime. I believe strongly that violence in people and the way they choose to express it is their own cause and choice. People are violent not because they play videogames, but because they choose to be.

As for his scientific evidence, which state that video game violence fundamentally affects the brain and its psychology, I must agree. Because of the interactivity of the video game, it's inevitable that your brain will be fundamentally affected and altered. After all, it's how it naturally reacts to its environment and stimuli, whether from the real world or the artificial one of a video game. I will admit that after playing for some time, you can and will be desensitized to violence. However, I do not believe that I have been trained to act violently, and I have not even when I have encountered tense situations. When dealing with video game violence, one has to draw a line between reality and the fiction of the game. I find it unfortunate that some people blur this line and choose to act out video game violence in real life. If that is the case, then it is their own problem, not that of the video game.

As for his proposal to restrict/ban video games with questionable content, what if we, the BZFlag community and our mildly violent game, fall under such law? Will we be forced to trade in our tanks and bullets for dancers and flowers or otherwise become an underground and taboo society? I would still very much like to see BZFlag remain free. I would miss the fun, social atmosphere and my friends very much if they all had to stop playing and programming.

But there has to be something we can do to stop such violence from proliferating and continue to play video games. One thing that we can do is that we can start giving guidance to our peers and our children to help them tell the difference between the game and reality. We need to start getting involved in each other's lives as friends and look out for each other. For this, I enjoy the BZFlag community because it provides that medium where we can meet such friends and the community makes an effort to keep itself clean.

I invite you to voice your thoughts on the issue of video game violence and what we in the BZFlag community can do about it.

A recording of the interview can be found on their website:

http://www.chatterboxgameshow.com/

See "Jack Thompson interview"

Jack Thompson Info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)

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Post by BinarySpike » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:11 am

I voted depends.
BZFlag overall is violent.
I mean... violence is hitting, shooting, deystroying.
That's exactly what you do in bzflag.
video games desensitize people
This is true.


But what you just did was start a flame war.

*pulls out needler in back pocket and loads him full of shiny pink needles*

I've seen kids play a game for five minutes and then start harrassing people and getting all angry.
I can play up to 7 hours a day (not everyday) and I get depressed and angry a the littlest of things.
(like having to pause and take trash out)

But when I go play with my friends at the park I come back happy and helpful.

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Post by RexFlex » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:21 am

I voted yes to this on a technicality.

The technicality is that all games are inherantly violent in one way or another. I remember reading about where a man wouldn't let his son play any violent games, which in his definition included any form of competition. In the end, his son was stuck with one game - Tetris. Even there an argument could be made that it is violent. :?

As for banning violent games? Well, games such as BZflag would be hard to ban given that it is a free and freely available online game that knows no country borders. And an international ban is just not going to happen.

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Post by Green Manalishi » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:30 am

in my book grand theft auto, postal (and many 3D shooters past and present) are violent games, because they are graphic and attempt to be realistic. at bzflag tanks are exploding and that's it. no humans get killed (not even are they visible at any point), no blood, no body parts flying around.. this is not a violent game to the extent that it would encourage stupid kids to go out and destroy stuff or harm people. bzflag would be nowhere near the top of the list if computer games started to get banned (actually there have been bans on games before. i remember an earlier version of gta has been banned in some countries including australia).

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Post by Guest » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:41 am

The Truth About Violent Youth and Video Games - This site actually proves that Violent Video Games seem to DEcrease youth crime :!:
I know it's slightly off-topic, but my point is, if BZFlag is a violent game, then that is good because it means BZFlag is decreasing youth violence... 8) [/url]
Last edited by Guest on Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by RPG » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:27 pm

BZFlag isn't realistic to the degree that it would encourage people to be violent. Flying tanks, 2D explosions, no blood, no humans, you don't even "die" (you just respawn). BZFlag is more of an arcade game than a "violence simulation" (gta). I have never felt violence, or the urge to do something violent, after playing BZ.

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Post by dartman » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:42 pm

I wholeheartedly...DISagree with this idiotic Thompson guy. He seems to think that absolutely every video game os evil. Yeah, I'm sure after playing Super Mario you'll feel like jumping on a turtle's back or a mushroom's head. NOT!

Jack, it's not video games that make kids act violent: it's idiots like you. :x


I'm voting for "Depends". Sure, BZFlag is technically a violent game. But it's not...really violent. Not in actuality. And when you play it, you find it's all in the name of fun (if not, where did "nice shot!" come from?). I highly doubt this guy has ever played a single game.

Here is an interesting article against Jacktard's point that pretty much voices gamer's opinion.

I say we of the entire gaming community should protest. This guy is wrecking entertainment.

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Post by H0ley » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:44 pm

People like that dude make a living on paranoia. How dare him make a living on other people's tragedies! Whoa, I listen heavy metal but do I need to wear emo clothes, talk like a sailor (i just talk like a submariner), go killing people (as much as I'd like too), smoke the refeer, etc? The answer is no.

I'd hate to be Jack Thompson's son, no BZflag to socialize when I'm too tired to go out after work. Yea, I'm young but I still work. People like him let things like the Patriot Act (which hinders privacy) pass through the houses due to FEAR. Fear fear fear fear, fear me because I play an open source computer game. Hey I should instead drive up to SF and go hire a street hooker instead. Maybe I should go to a bar and get wasted since I look older than I am. While I'm at it, I'll go buy a rifle since they're so fun to play with. Hey, that's not bad ideas.... lol jk.

Here's a funny cartoon. http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=arc ... 2005-08-08
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Post by L4m3r » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:54 pm

RPG wrote:BZFlag isn't realistic to the degree that it would encourage people to be violent. Flying tanks, 2D explosions, no blood, no humans, you don't even "die" (you just respawn). BZFlag is more of an arcade game than a "violence simulation" (gta). I have never felt violence, or the urge to do something violent, after playing BZ.
Well said.

I find that after playing GTA:SA I don't have the urge to be violent... but on occasion it does give me the itch do go drive like a maniac, or hit the local set of switchbacks...
Optimism is just a milder alternative to denial.

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Post by Glassjaw » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:50 pm

i found a rather interesting article about violence in games

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Post by Guest » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:36 pm

GlassJaw: I posted a link to that already... :roll:

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Post by dartman » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:54 pm

Yeah, but it's a ice article. And that comic is hilarious, Holey! :lol-old:

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Post by Glassjaw » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:41 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:GlassJaw: I posted a link to that already... :roll:
this once again proves that i don't actually read the other posts :p

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Heavens no!

Post by SilentSwan » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:58 pm

Ok, first off, the OP did not start a flame war :) He asked a perfectly valid question.

I voted no... since the SPIRIT of the game is not violence... not anymore than chess is violent - it's competition and strategy.

Overall, I have mixed feelings about video games in general - some of them are certainly disturbingly violent. But... whether or not this has any effect on society's perception of violence remains to be seen.

Just my $0.95 (price increased due to weak US dollar)

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Post by cookiecutter » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:38 am

I voted that yes BZflag is a violent game. There is shooting and blowing up and lasers and machine guns. It certainly however is not very violent compared to most games. It is more of a friendly, competetive violence, like football.

On the subject in general, I am extremely against any censorship. I really disliked GTA because I did not like the idea of being a criminal. I would not however in a million years support the banning of it. If you don't like it, don't buy it, no ones is making you. If you don't want kids to have it, don't buy it for them, it's rated for an f-ing reason. :evil:

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Post by RPG » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:39 am

cookiecutter wrote:On the subject in general, I am extremely against any censorship. I really disliked GTA because I did not like the idea of being a criminal. I would not however in a million years support the banning of it. If you don't like it, don't buy it, no ones is making you. If you don't want kids to have it, don't buy it for them, it's rated for an f-ing reason. :evil:
I could side with that.

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Yes

Post by [dmp] » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:56 am

BZFlag is just a game. People failing to tell the difference between facts and fictions is not the victim of computergames. They should get help, which isnt to blame the games but determining why they cant tell what is acceptable in real life and was is fiction.

(removed alot of mumbling)
Last edited by [dmp] on Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't need huge pictures here.

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Post by SilentSwan » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:01 am

cookiecutter wrote:On the subject in general, I am extremely against any censorship. I really disliked GTA because I did not like the idea of being a criminal. I would not however in a million years support the banning of it. If you don't like it, don't buy it, no ones is making you. If you don't want kids to have it, don't buy it for them, it's rated for an f-ing reason. :evil:
Thank you!!! Well said.

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Re: Yes

Post by The Vet » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:06 pm

meacan wrote:BZFlag is just a game. People failing to tell the difference between facts and fictions is not the victim of computergames. They should get help, which isnt to blame the games but determining why they cant tell what is acceptable in real life and was is fiction.

(removed alot of mumbling)
Right on. But how do you teach the difference between reality and fiction to others as well as yourself?

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Post by a monkey » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:25 am

BZFlag is so... weird compared to real life (superflags, weird bullets, jumping, etc.) that it doesn't even make a connection in my mind to, well, real violence. It's about as violent as Popeye's quarrels with Bluto. By the way, Green Manalishi, I agree completely with you.
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Post by H0ley » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:47 am

My cardboard tank can jump...
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Post by BIYA » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:49 am

Soon there are gonna be complaints by people about racing games are leading to recless and dangerous driving.

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Re: Yes

Post by The Red Baron » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:59 pm

The Vet wrote:
meacan wrote:BZFlag is just a game. People failing to tell the difference between facts and fictions is not the victim of computergames. They should get help, which isnt to blame the games but determining why they cant tell what is acceptable in real life and was is fiction.

(removed alot of mumbling)
Right on. But how do you teach the difference between reality and fiction to others as well as yourself?
Thats why God gave us Parents.
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Re: Yes

Post by The Vet » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:57 pm

The Red Baron wrote:
The Vet wrote:
meacan wrote:BZFlag is just a game. People failing to tell the difference between facts and fictions is not the victim of computergames. They should get help, which isnt to blame the games but determining why they cant tell what is acceptable in real life and was is fiction.

(removed alot of mumbling)
Right on. But how do you teach the difference between reality and fiction to others as well as yourself?
Thats why God gave us Parents.
But what if the parents are unaware or simply not involved enough? What can we as a society/friends do?

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Post by nemesis » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:57 am

BIYA wrote:Soon there are gonna be complaints by people about racing games are leading to recless and dangerous driving.
i actually notice that on myself. if i play too many racing games, i drive like even more of an idiot than usual. (OT)

silent swan said

Overall, I have mixed feelings about video games in general - some of them are certainly disturbingly violent. But... whether or not this has any effect on society's perception of violence remains to be seen.

I agree. I'd add this. If I was feeling violent and had never laid eyes/ears/hands/etc. on a video game, I might punch someone, use a kitchen knife, etc. (btw, I am not a violent person, I'm just using myself as an example) HOWEVER, if i had played a lot of violent video games (or watched violent movies), i might get the idea of chainsawing, sawing off shotguns, building bombs, etc.

what i'm saying is that while it is debatable whether games make kids violent, it is logical (probable, if not definite) that already violent kids might get ideas for further violence off games.

another off topic: swan said that there is disturbing violence and i agree. i am not a wimp. I cut heads off fish while fileting, i shoot pests in the yard, etc. it's not like i'm afraid of blood. if the violence disturbs ME, then maybe it's too much?

just some random thoughts.

ps bz is not violent

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