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Masquarade: Genocide's Kryptonite?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:47 pm
by scishop
Problem: Laser is beaten by Cloaking and Guided Missile is beaten by stealth. But there is no paper for Genocide's rock, possibly the most powerful flag of them all.

Solution: When a tank with the genocide flag kills a tank with the masquerade flag it is the genocide's tank's team that gets killed along with the masqueraded tank. To sweeten the deal for the masquerade tank s/he could get the points for the genocided team.

Logic: Genocide kills tanks all of one color; so if you shoot a "red" tank all red tanks should die even if that "red" tank was actually a green tank in disguise. This would slightly weaken the overpowered genocide flag and slightly strengthen the underpowered masquerade flag.

What do y'all think?

Re: Masquarade: Genocide's Kryptonite?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:22 pm
by bdotson
scishop wrote:Problem: Laser is beaten by Cloaking and Guided Missile is beaten by stealth. But there is no paper for Genocide's rock, possibly the most powerful flag of them all.

Solution: When a tank with the genocide flag kills a tank with the masquerade flag it is the genocide's tank's team that gets killed along with the masqueraded tank. To sweeten the deal for the masquerade tank s/he could get the points for the genocided team.

Logic: Genocide kills tanks all of one color; so if you shoot a "red" tank all red tanks should die even if that "red" tank was actually a green tank in disguise. This would slightly weaken the overpowered genocide flag and slightly strengthen the underpowered masquerade flag.

What do y'all think?
Sounds logical, but I don't agree that Genocide is overpowered. The best protection against Genocide is not being on the team hit with it. ;)

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:26 pm
by The Knights Who Say Ni
I like the idea sound great

and its not very powerful

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:40 pm
by L4m3r
Good idea, but I also think MQ should protect you if your team gets geno'd.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:48 pm
by The Knights Who Say Ni
L4m3r wrote:Good idea, but I also think MQ should protect you if your team gets geno'd.
yer that would be better...

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:41 pm
by Hannibal
The Logic's right, I dont like your solution. that makes geno basically work backwards, and thats no good.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:27 pm
by khazhyk
your saying if you geno some guy with MQ your team dies? that's a kinda odd soulution. mabye if someone has MQ and his team is hit he won't die?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:38 pm
by RPG
Basically, with this solution, genocide would determine which team to kill based upon the physical color of the tank that was shot. This new flag attribute would have two new effects:

1. If a player with Genocide hit a player with Masquerade, since the MQ tank appears to be the Genocide tank's team, when the genocide tank kills the MQ tank, the Genocide player dies along with his entire team.

2. If you were on a team with masquerade, and your teammate got shot with genocide, you wouldn't die, because to the genocide-shooter, you would appear to be on his team.

me like.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:13 pm
by Soraya
yes i like this too. its a very good solution... but i know some servers have made their own solutions for the geno problem; they only give you 1 or 2 shots with the flag so you really have to kno what ur doing to get a shot off on someone.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:47 pm
by Hannibal
I dont like the first one RPG translated.(I guess you could call it that)
The second I like.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:38 pm
by Spazzy McGee
yes. I think it's a good idea that if one of your team mates gets shot with geno, then you don't die if you hold MQ. This would reduce the blow of the flag, making it seem less powerful. Good idea.

causing your whole team to die if you hit an MQ, howeveer, seems pointlesss to me and would surely start off debate over the powerfulness of the flag (agaain).

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:45 pm
by khazhyk
i think they both should be in there. With GM you have to watch out for ST because they can kill you, but you can't kill them. same with laser vs cloaking. that same idea is rpg's #1, it weakens the flag and give the flag holder someone to watch out for.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:58 pm
by blast
me1 wrote:i think they both should be in there. With GM you have to watch out for ST because they can kill you, but you can't kill them. same with laser vs cloaking. that same idea is rpg's #1, it weakens the flag and give the flag holder someone to watch out for.
You can kill a ST with GM, you just can't lock onto them. The MQ flag is only for visual deception, like wearing an enemy's uniform.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:27 am
by loophole
good idea. I think all powerful flags need a counter-flag.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:49 am
by dartman
Yeah, I'm for this one. Genocide gets annoying when you or a teammate don't have it. :x

On a sorta off-topic note, I think that MQ should be used more on no-radar servers.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:51 am
by Workaphobia
I always thought MQ was one of the most underpowered flags, since so many players use the radar. I don't often like what I hear when people discuss geno modifications, but I think this is a genuinely good idea and makes a lot of sense in BZFlag's wacky world of flying tanks and burrowed turrets.

I would love to see both effects implemented. The only part I'm unsure of is what effect hitting MQ with geno should have on scoring, and whether the enemy target should die. (Geno is after all a physical bullet, in addition to a war crime.)

Good thinking.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:50 pm
by Soraya
me1 wrote:With GM you have to watch out for ST because they can kill you, but you can't kill them.
well you can kill gm even if you dont have st, you just have to know about it. for instance, gms can't make really sharp turns, so if you stay almost directly beneath them or really close, but to the side, they can't hurt you as easily.
dartman wrote:I think that MQ should be used more on no-radar servers.
well, i think that would make mq invincible, unless you identified the person. because the only other way to tell a mq tank (besides ident.ing) is w/ the radar.

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:12 am
by (Dvn)
1. If a player with Genocide hit a player with Masquerade, since the MQ tank appears to be the Genocide tank's team, when the genocide tank kills the MQ tank, the Genocide player dies along with his entire team.

2. If you were on a team with masquerade, and your teammate got shot with genocide, you wouldn't die, because to the genocide-shooter, you would appear to be on his team.
i like that

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:22 am
by Workaphobia
Soraya wrote:
dartman wrote:I think that MQ should be used more on no-radar servers.
well, i think that would make mq invincible, unless you identified the person. because the only other way to tell a mq tank (besides ident.ing) is w/ the radar.
Don't forget that bullet color remains unchanged. Also, it's pretty easy to read aggression in the movement patterns of the opposing tank.

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:14 pm
by Soraya
ah yes forgot about the bullets... (you can tell i usually play non-flag servers right?? :D) yeah, i guess u can tell aggression from the movement patterns, but you'd have to really be watching for it. and they could just come up to you calm as ever, cuz they kno they look like a teammie, and shoot u in the face.

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:37 pm
by The Knights Who Say Ni
Soraya wrote:
me1 wrote:With GM you have to watch out for ST because they can kill you, but you can't kill them.
yes you can you just cant lock...

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:55 am
by Workaphobia
Soraya wrote:ah yes forgot about the bullets... (you can tell i usually play non-flag servers right?? :D) yeah, i guess u can tell aggression from the movement patterns, but you'd have to really be watching for it. and they could just come up to you calm as ever, cuz they kno they look like a teammie, and shoot u in the face.
Well normally a MQ player isn't thinking about infiltrating your ranks and backstabbing you; he's just concerned with getting right to you and hoping that his disguise will buy a few seconds of inaction on your part. Friendly tanks usually don't charge at you. It's just like the way you can often identify a player with SW because they'll just run and run until they make a daring overhead jump, and you can always tell a laser apart from everyone else becdause they move slowly forwards and backwards, and seem to remain very still until you're in their sights.
The Knights Who Say Ni wrote:
Soraya wrote:
me1 wrote:With GM you have to watch out for ST because they can kill you, but you can't kill them.
yes you can you just cant lock...
That used to be the case, but now that GM has a minimum range it's pretty difficult. You'd have to take ST down at a distance, with a missile that moves in a straight line.

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:12 pm
by Spazzy McGee
Workaphobia wrote:That used to be the case, but now that GM has a minimum range it's pretty difficult. You'd have to take ST down at a distance, with a missile that moves in a straight line.
But that means wasting precious GM if there is a shot limit imposed on the server. better get somewhere the ST can't get you without them jumping up right in front of your missiles.

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:24 pm
by ducatiwannabe
I like it how it is currently. Though sometimes I wish MQ was a little more powerful. I was just thinking how cool it would be to make a no-radar map with Masquerade flags. ;)

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:43 pm
by Timpson Texas
RPG wrote:1. If a player with Genocide hit a player with Masquerade, since the MQ tank appears to be the Genocide tank's team, when the genocide tank kills the MQ tank, the Genocide player dies along with his entire team.

2. If you were on a team with masquerade, and your teammate got shot with genocide, you wouldn't die, because to the genocide-shooter, you would appear to be on his team.

me like.
This is probably one of the better adjustments to the flags that I've heard is quite a while.