A question?: CTF Scoring WHY???

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Razzberry
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A question?: CTF Scoring WHY???

Post by Razzberry » Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:34 pm

Ok, this really bugs me, and maybe its a dev issue, but there is NO reward (other than the gratifying laugh track) for capturing a flag in CTF. The capturer should get a 5 or 10 point bonus for each capture and the team should be rewarded as well. I think a new scoring system for CTF is in order, otherwise, it's just jury rigged FFA.

Anyone else?

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Post by sn0w_m0nkey » Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:49 pm

good point razz,

CTF already suffers from teams hardly ever being balanced. when you have people running flags 4 reds to 2 greens etc, then its only gonna get people more mad than it already does for them to recieve 5-10 points.

but i see your point on ducati 5156 style CTF, it does seem like red vs green FFA with a "wipeout" flag when captured. i don't play in the league any longer, so i find this quite true about being an FFA type game in the end.
what if the tank that scores gets the points for the number of tanks on the other team?

in a LEAGUE CTF match, personal score hardly matters outside the number of times a team scores the opponent flag.

sm
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Post by Grumbler » Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:17 pm

I believe Mr. Snow_Monkey has a valid point. Although, I would hope that the captured flag points would be distributed among the various team members and not just the individual flag capturer.

Having played CTF in an unofficial format, I can say that teams that do well, work together. One individual may guard the teams flag, another may make manuevers to capture an opposing teams flag, and yet another may act as high guard to the rest. Hypothetically speaking of course.

All should get the reward. I have not noticed, but do you get penalized for having your flag captured, beyond the instant death? Does that count against your individual score, or only the teams?
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Post by Spaceman Spiff » Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:08 pm

You only lose "team points" when an opponent captures your flag.

The only real issue I have with your idea, Razz, is that it would be way too easy to simply pick on the weak team (like on xmission) to get points for yourself. CTF is for the good of the team.. not personal gain. That's what really attracts me to CTF; the inability to play without teamwork. I got tired of FFA because it's just that... a free for all. :D

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Post by Grumbler » Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:17 pm

The issue here, is that xmission is not an organized team server. This generates team scores that are completely trivial. I would agree that individual score is irrelevant, but it is a nice way to judge how things are going, and what group to attack next.(we all like to hunt a little)
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Post by Spaceman Spiff » Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:41 pm

I am no fan of "modern CTF" maps. I am of the mind that mixing CTF and FFA is often a big mistake. Ducati style CTF is the only CTF as far as I'm concerned.

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Post by Razzberry » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:44 pm

No to split hairs, but even a one point reward for everyone on the team would seem appropriate.

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Post by bamf. » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:49 pm

I think the current point system for ctf is fine. CTF isn’t designed for personal score, it’s a team event.
I also think that coding some sort of "auto-assigning player system" when joining would be a good idea. Instead of the player choosing which team (color) to join, they are automatically dumped into the team with fewer players, balancing team size. This might help alleviate the one-sided victories often seen.
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Post by Dervish » Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:41 am

I agree with Spiff and bamf. Still, it would be nice to have a server option that allows admins to set scoring so that a kill, death, flag capture, and flag loss can be set to any value for both teams and individuals.
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Post by snike » Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:51 pm

It would almost be nice to keep a record of stats for players (if they volunteer to do so of course). and then the stacked teams would be less of an issue sometimes. Just an idea and now that I think about it it is really quite stupid.
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Post by Merry » Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:25 pm

I think the current point system for ctf is fine.
You're right bamf. (Even though I hate the laughing ;-)) I think it should stay the way it is.
CTF isn't designed for personal score, it's a team event.
True. FFA is designed for that. I will stand with the real kind of CTF. :o
I agree with Spiff, bamf, and Dervy.
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Post by Legolas » Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:05 pm

IT be sorta weird with gaining points for your score everytime you CTF. Because it would make bad players look good and good players look bad because the bad players score would go up everytime. Thats my 2 cents.

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Post by The Red Baron » Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:52 pm

Legolas wrote:IT be sorta weird with gaining points for your score everytime you CTF. Because it would make bad players look good and good players look bad because the bad players score would go up everytime. Thats my 2 cents.

Define Good player on ctf.

High personal score.
nope.

Ctf is not about who's better. But which team can function better. I am a fair player on Ducati. However, If I have worthless teamates, I'm doomed. There is no way to win.
also, different teamates have different jobs. Sometimes, I have the job of capturing the flag. The others create diversions and rack up high personal scores. Or some times I guard the flag.

Sumed up, it can be hard to tell a good player on ctf. Take in account personal score, teamates, and team score. You can be sure of one thing, They are either better individualy than you, or worse. Perhaps the same.

My only note of sorrow is that there is a lack of excellent teamates. Not matter how poor in skill you are, you can double your potental and lethality when working as a team. I remember two teamates, the best in the world, One was John, the other Ray Fighter. I would tell them Get "?" flag. Hell or high water would not stop them. I was covering, and racked up and awesome personal score, but that's not the point. We forced all other teams off the server we were so good. Same thing with Ray Fighter. A coordinated team is unstopable. I have seen it time after time again happen. Forget skill, Teamwork will dominate the field.

Ever seen the Baron Brthers. Perfect example!

We challenge anybody, 2v2, FFA or CTF. We are not Bz Gods like kono, or bamf. Just brothers who know how to work together to wipe out all resistance.

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Post by SGI » Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:08 pm

Nice words

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Post by Dervish » Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm

Good point, Red Baron.

I think the common 2 vs 2 configuration in CTF matches doesn't promote enough teamwork to support yuor statement. Still, the point you make is absolutely important. If we had more 3 vs 3 matches, then CTF would really hold true to its purpose.
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Post by The Red Baron » Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:13 pm

I forgot to mention Dervish that When Playing with Ray Fighter and John, it was 2v2. One occasion with Ray Fighter (recently) and another time with John (not so recently)

Also you have the Baron team. 2 still makes a team & from experience, it corroborates my statements.
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Post by Merry » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:33 pm

Right. When you would get points, they would probably win (on poor teams) the game by like 30!!
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Post by CapN » Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:59 pm

Wow,

So many good points!!! I tend to agree mostly with BAMF I guess. As far as league matches go, you could pretty much do away with the individual score keeping, it is really pointless. As for regular CTF games, I can see both sides of it.

It is a team game but with so many players going in and out it is rare it seems to get a good evenly matched game going, so a lot of times I think it almost turns into a FFA game. Then, like Koba pointed out, the individual scores do give you some gauge as to how well a team or person is doing.

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Post by The Red Baron » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:44 pm

well one thing that slightly aggravates me is that all team scores are in the right hand corner barely discernable. On CTF if we could move them to the right and make them more prominent perhaps that could help. That way your focus is on team score, not personal. Just a little visual tactic.
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