Simple Wings change with big results

rolling_blunder · Post by **rolling_blunder** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:04 pm

i have many ideas for improvements to bzflag, as i'm sure we all do. but i'm posting this one because i think it could open up many new ways to play, and yet be very simple to implement. plus it would be totally back-compatible.

i propose that 2 properties of the Wings flag be made into variables that can be set in a world map. those would be 1) Mobility in Air and 2) Number of Additional Jumps in Air.

1) Mobility in Air: this should be expressed as a percentage of normal ground driving mobility that would be allowed in the air. 0 means no air driving, 1 means full mobility. even in a regular map, it might be very interesting to set this variable to 0.05... this wouldn't allow much extra mobility but would make platforming much less frustrating! that little bit of "finesse" in the air is often granted in games that rely on platforming, for good reason.

2) Number of Additional Jumps in Air: pretty self-explanatory. pick a cap over which the number is infinite.

there are many aerial-oriented maps these days, but they are always limited since they rely on the Wings flag. what if everyone could fly while holding another flag...? lots of possibilities spring up from this little change...

thoughts?

Spazzy McGee · Post by **Spazzy McGee** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:39 pm

We already have them:

These change the monuverability of the tank while in the air:
_wingsGravity
_wingsJumpVelocity
_wingsSlideTime

This is the number of wings jumps you get:
_wingsJumpCount

Post by **macsforme** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:27 am

I think he means that he wants to implement a way to "fly" without the WG flag.

Saber · Post by **Saber** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:40 am

I believe he was thinking about the Wings flag.

I think this isn't a good idea because the Wings flag will just become Useless (and that flag alredy exists).
On the other hand, I would like to see a Wings fighting server where you can fly and have another flag at the same time.

.Zero · Post by **.Zero** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:52 am

Saber wrote:On the other hand, I would like to see a Wings fighting server where you can fly and have another flag at the same time.

I think that's what the OP meant.
Now that would be fun! Not sure how that would work though, since lots of Wings fights keep going up and up and up and flags have to be picked up from the ground. Many flags would become useless as well. (Who needs a BU,SR,etc when flying in the sky?

)

It could that be implemented like Ricochet I'd guess. I like it.

rolling_blunder · Post by **rolling_blunder** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:37 am

Constitution wrote:I think he means that he wants to implement a way to "fly" without the WG flag.

you got it. make "air driving" and "multi jumping" variables that can be set for a given map. so yes, flying could be made independent of the Wings flag. obviously no map would have to use this, they could stick to using a Wings flag, or have neither or whatever they want.

and yes, that's the point... you could fly, and have a flag too! think how cool some of the battles could be, flying around with Laser and Guided Missile (especially as long as the tracking isn't too strong). ok, sure, Burrow wouldn't be so useful on a map like this. but some "useless" ones like SR could actually become really cool. if someone has Laser, and you have SR, but you get above or below them, you could definitely be a threat...

Grace F · Post by **Grace F** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:32 am

I like this idea - being able to fly without the WG flag AND have another flag.

If you know how to, I suggest you create your own server with this implemented.

CannonBallGuy · Post by **CannonBallGuy** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:33 am

This would require, at least, a bzfs code modification. It's possible that it would break protocol too, so it's not necessarily as easy as it may seem.

Grace F · Post by **Grace F** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:19 pm

I didn't think it would be easy. Grr I would've liked to see this in action

Also, can I ask how it would break protocol?

Not that I know what Protocol even means.

Post by **joevano** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:24 pm

Flying tanks without a flag!!! That would be unrealistic!!!

Grace F · Post by **Grace F** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:28 pm

donny_baker wrote:Flying tanks without a flag!!! That would be unrealistic!!!

lol, what are you talking about BZFlag is as real as it gets

Jumping tanks are all over the place!

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:03 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:This would require, at least, a bzfs code modification. It's possible that it would break protocol too, so it's not necessarily as easy as it may seem.

It wouldn't break protocol, but yes a re-compile of bzfs would be required for servers who wanted to host the flag.

(if your adding a flag)

if your not making a flag, everything is just client side except for the variables.
variables require a server update, but that's not breaking protocol either.

2.2 will allow with plugins to change shot types. (eg when you pickup WG you also have SW shots)

Post by **macsforme** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:09 pm

Maybe it's time to implement client-side plugins, which will allow server owners a whole new level of freedom for possible changes they can make to gameplay.

No idea about the technical feasibility of that, though.

??? Lauria · Post by **??? Lauria** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:10 am

I like the sound of the "driving in air without wings" idea.

God knows how many times I was easily killed because I accidentally jumped and someone predicted where I would land.

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:13 pm

Constitution wrote:Maybe it's time to implement client-side plugins

Security problem, or cheating problem, you take your pick

ducktape · Post by **ducktape** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:40 pm

donny_baker wrote:Flying tanks without a flag!!! That would be unrealistic!!!

Flying tanks With a Flag!!! thats unrealistic!!!

(jumping tanks!!!!!

)

AAA · Post by **AAA** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:12 pm

Implementing that wound not break the BZFlag protocol (the packet data sent between the server and client), but it would require at least two new server variables, and, in order to use it, a new client. Old clients would be able to see the multiple jumps, but without the flag couldn't do it themselves.
We would need the non-wings equivalent of the wings variables that don't already exist (_wingsSlideTime,_wingsJumpCount), and mabye another variable that enables it, if not built into the new _jumpSlideTime or similar variable.

CannonBallGuy · Post by **CannonBallGuy** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:24 pm

AAA
If a new client is required to play on the new servers, then yes, protocol has been broken.
That's pretty much the definition of "breaking protocol"...

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:12 am

CannonBallGuy
When you "break protocol" you are breaking network code so the client and server cannot communicate correctly.

Changing the order of bytes in a Msg will do this. Like in MsgPlayerUpdate send the new angle before the new position (or vice-versa)

That would just cause weird problems if you joined, some other things like changing the connection Msg's and map loading Msg's would actually "break" it so that it would error out.

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:25 am

protocol is also game mechanics to us.
clients with the same protocol must behave the same

Post by **macsforme** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:04 pm

This sort of thing has already happened to some extent... we've all seen cheaters doing this.

dango · Post by **dango** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:13 pm

i think rb means bzfs side wings cheat

the_j0k3r · Post by **the_j0k3r** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:08 am

great, how about we implement a bz variable for god mode aswell? take the edge off for the cheaters. lol.

i'm not a big fan of the idea tbh, its much work to code it all in, yet how much will it really bring to the game? it would render many flags useless, and mean that people could just be lazy, because they dont need to plan their jumps, they can control it in the air.

besides - you destroy known laws - what comes up, must come down

rolling_blunder · Post by **rolling_blunder** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:59 am

the_j0k3r wrote: its much work to code it all in, yet how much will it really bring to the game? it would render many flags useless, and mean that people could just be lazy, because they dont need to plan their jumps, they can control it in the air.

the thought is that it should be easy to add-- it's already "in there", it's just usually limited to the Wings flag.

and please understand, it wouldn't mean a mandatory change to your favorite maps. it would enable new maps, new kinds of maps, new gameplay.

as always, some flags are more or less useful depending on the variables of a given map. some maps-- in fact many of the best ones-- don't use every flag. so this wouldn't be any different. in a flying tank map, maybe BU would be left out. no biggie.

and as for making people lazy, again, it would just make a different type of gameplay. after all, Ducati fans will tell you that allowing jumping at all makes people lazy

and besides, the amount of air control could be regulated.

i have to admit my bias-- i think that currently WG vs WG flying combat in BZF is not very fun or functional. but if we could have flags up there, it would get so much more interesting!

CannonBallGuy · Post by **CannonBallGuy** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:52 am

rolling_blunder wrote:
the_j0k3r wrote: its much work to code it all in, yet how much will it really bring to the game? it would render many flags useless, and mean that people could just be lazy, because they dont need to plan their jumps, they can control it in the air.
the thought is that it should be easy to add-- it's already "in there", it's just usually limited to the Wings flag.

If it's so easy... what are you waiting for? Patches Welcome!