Let's expand the Phantom Zone (pz)

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hlfmnhlfamazing
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Let's expand the Phantom Zone (pz)

Post by hlfmnhlfamazing »

Damm you BZFlag!!!!! I had to get up to post this idea otherwise I wasn't gonna get to sleep! hehehe

Anyways, the PZ flag has somewhat limited usage. Most of the time you either use it to travel to another point on the map easily, or your average campers(and you know who you are.... damm you :-) ) will just sit there and 'come out of hiding' when a good shot becomes available.

Also, PZers are sitting ducks to tanks equipped with either super bullets or a shockwave flag. I propose to turn the tables a little bit, and also to make the alternate zone a little more attractive.

Let's take the planet mofo map for example. It has 8 small platforms around the edges and one big one in the middle. PZ acts very much like an oscillation overthruster flag in that you can move inside these map obstructions. What if the phantom zone held it's own world variant in it? So when you're in the phantom zone, you can jump on top of platforms that you can't see in the normal zone.

In order to turn the tables(and I know that the BZF devs may not like this idea) I think that tanks in the PZ should have it's own set of flags, controlled by the server owner of course, and there'd be a flag or set of flags only available in the PZ that would be just the opposite of the advantage that a tank with SB or SW would have. Maybe you could have a phantom bullet or phantom wave flag in there or something. An auto 'out of zone' flag that would put you back into the normal zone. Yes, that would mean that your tank would be holding two flags.

Maybe there'd be no phantom weapon that you could pick up that would take out users in the normal world, but I still think it'd be cool to see phantom tanks taking each other out with a phantom lasers or whatever. Especially for maps with high traffic it sometimes gets crowded. That zone is just itching to get used.

And for users in the normal world, a phantom tank sitting on a platform that's in the PZ, that tank would appear as if it's floating.(you're in the normal zone, you can't see the phantom platform)

The ability to carry two flags would add a whole new element to CTF. Take your team flag into the zone and hide it in there, blue team's base is in the zone, reds' is not. I'm just throwing the double flag idea out there to see what people think *shrug*, but having zoned platforms I think would add alot of new dynamic to the game.

Now that the idea is out of my head, maybe I can get some sleep! The nerve of you people keeping me up like this! lol

*EDIT* I had to edit this because the double flag thing is such a bad idea. That's what I get for posting have asleep, right? But it has gotten other people talking about it, which was the whole point.

Anyways, upon picking up the PZ flag, *that* is when you'd be put into the phantom zone instead of going to a teleporter. You'd pick up the flag, then you'd see a wormhole appear in front of you and then you're in the zone. the flag would auto drop until you picked up another flag.
Last edited by hlfmnhlfamazing on Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Grace F »

hlfmnhlfamazing wrote:Let's take the planet mofo map for example. It has 8 small platforms around the edges and one big one in the middle. PZ acts very much like an oscillation overthruster flag in that you can move inside these map obstructions. What if the phantom zone held it's own world variant in it? So when you're in the phantom zone, you can jump on top of platforms that you can't see in the normal zone.
So when your zoned you see other, extra objects that non zoned players can't see, aswell as the objects to which normal players can see? So you see both 'worlds' when zoned? BUT when zoned you can't interact with the Normal World, only with this new zoned world? Yea?
-That would mean there would have to be 2 maps, within the 1. :?
hlfmnhlfamazing wrote:In order to turn the tables(and I know that the BZF devs may not like this idea) I think that tanks in the PZ should have it's own set of flags, controlled by the server owner of course, and there'd be a flag or set of flags only available in the PZ that would be just the opposite of the advantage that a tank with SB or SW would have. Maybe you could have a phantom bullet or phantom wave flag in there or something. An auto 'out of zone' flag that would put you back into the normal zone. Yes, that would mean that your tank would be holding two flags.
If this was to be done which I don't think it would be :P Why not just drop the zone flag once zoned? You don't need the zone flag to remain zoned. If there were going to be special zone only flags, then their should be a 'out of zone' flag like you said to get out of the Zone world. OR just drive back through a teleporter.

Oh yea I just thought, because this Zone world is different to the Normal world...would the teleporters be in different locations? There would have to be a whole new map for this idea :P

And about the Zone only flags, when zoned, multi coloured flags could appear. Just like the Anitdote Flags appear once a bad flag is picked up. Oh and if you meant that a Zoned player could take out Normal players, nah I'd have to say I don't like that too much :P The majority of players don't have SB or SW, so Zoned players could just hunt down all Normal Players.
hlfmnhlfamazing wrote:Maybe there'd be no phantom weapon that you could pick up that would take out users in the normal world, but I still think it'd be cool to see phantom tanks taking each other out with a phantom lasers or whatever. Especially for maps with high traffic it sometimes gets crowded.
Even if zoned players could take eachother out, there wouldnt be enough Zoned flags for anyone to stop a rampaging Zoned SW player :P
hlfmnhlfamazing wrote:And for users in the normal world, a phantom tank sitting on a platform that's in the PZ, that tank would appear as if it's floating.(you're in the normal zone, you can't see the phantom platform)
That would get annoying :P PZ is annoying enough already as it appears as a normal player on the radar. I use the radar a fair bit and trying to rico into a zoned player is embarrassing :) Now seeing them floating around in mid air would just add more fustration ;)

There's alot to this idea, and it only brings up more and more questions. -Like:
-What would happen if you died in the Zoned World? Re-spawn in the Zone World?
-If the Worlds are different, and you enter a teleporter into the Zoned World, would you drop from the sky? Just appear at random?
-What would happen to the radar? Would it show both worlds? Or either 1 of the other depending on what world you in? Would it also show ALL players or just those in the same world as you?

etc., etc.


Despite all that I like this idea of 2 worlds. Though it's not something I think the devs would do. So someone would have to code all this up and make 1 map containing 2 different 'worlds' and flags. :)
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Post by hlfmnhlfamazing »

Why not just drop the zone flag once zoned? You don't need the zone flag to remain zoned. If there were going to be special zone only flags, then their should be a 'out of zone' flag like you said to get out of the Zone world. OR just drive back through a teleporter.
A better implementation. Remember, I was halfway asleep when I wrote all that :-P
Oh yea I just thought, because this Zone world is different to the Normal world...would the teleporters be in different locations?
Possibly. That's up to the server owner.
Even if zoned players could take eachother out, there wouldnt be enough Zoned flags for anyone to stop a rampaging Zoned SW player
There's still SB and normal SW. Also, I'd assume that a map that took advantage of this would have a greater abundance of PZ flags around so someone could go in quickly and take care of the problem.
-What would happen if you died in the Zoned World? Re-spawn in the Zone World?
Possibly.
-If the Worlds are different, and you enter a teleporter into the Zoned World, would you drop from the sky? Just appear at random?
That's up to the server owner, but I'd assume you'd appear at whatever teleporter is linked.
What would happen to the radar? Would it show both worlds? Or either 1 of the other depending on what world you in? Would it also show ALL players or just those in the same world as you?
That would be up to the server owner or the devs, but I'd assume that while you're zoned both would appear on radar, when you're in normal mode only the one appears.
Despite all that I like this idea of 2 worlds.
Thanks. The whole two flags or 'phantom flag' thing I didn't think would get very far, but making the zone into it's own psuedo-world was "the big idea".

I think that having a phantom super bullet flag would be the way to go when it came to turning the tables, a phantom shockwave would be a little too much; or maybe the phantom wave would be alot smaller than the normal one. I'd also think that a phantom flag that's capable of taking people out would have a very short limit of shots.(per the server owner) But one thing I think would be somewhat cool about having a phantom world like this is that phantom bullets go through normal world obstructions. However, phantom bullets would rico off of phantom obstructions. So for someone in the normal world who couldn't see the phantom obstruction, a bullet might look like it were just ricocheting or changing direction for no reason.

There's all kinds of things you could do with this. the PZ might have higher jumping ability, bullets only rico in the normal world, of course there's the ability to hide your team's flag in the zone, you could have different types of geno. Geno that only kills other zoned tanks, geno that only kills normal tanks, and a geno that kills both.
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Post by BinarySpike »

I don't like the duel flag idea.

But having different "zoned" map sounds great!

Actually you could do this now... Just make two area's of a map and when users go through tele they goto the other portion. Just texture one portion with a purple grass ground.
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Post by Grace F »

yea you could do that, that would take care of the 2 different worlds. I think though me and HMHA were thinking of a map that was alot more difficult than simply cutting a map in 2 :P

We're probably thinking too difficulty :)
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Post by halo3 »

i like the double world idea
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Post by hlfmnhlfamazing »

Grace F wrote:You don't need the zone flag to remain zoned. If there were going to be special zone only flags, then their should be a 'out of zone' flag like you said to get out of the Zone world. OR just drive back through a teleporter.
Thinking about this, your comments helping out a bit has gotten me thinking about the way into the PZ. Instead of you picking up the PZ flag and then waiting to run into a teleporter(or rushing to the teleporter) to enter the PZ, why not have the PZ flag be an 'auto into zone' flag and the anti-PZ flag that's in the zone would be an 'out of zone' flag.

Of course, this all to be controlled by the server owner. :-)
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Post by Grace F »

I dont soo much like the idea of 'auto into zone' because there would be times when I wouldn't want to be transported :)


EDIT:I saw what you posted at PZ flag - a possible upgrade to its abilities and like I said, being teleported unexpectedly into either of the 2 worlds would get annoying :P

Perhaps have like a portal of some sort appear, and proceeding through it would transport you so you do have some choice.

Otherwise, add this 'auto zone flag' to the bad flag list ;) Anyway thats MO :)
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Post by hlfmnhlfamazing »

heh heh heh, alright alright. I'm just brainstorming here. :roll: :-)

However it gets implemented, I hope that the developers put some sort of PZ expansion into place.

Alot of the ideas-within-the-ideas are coming out, are pretty bad, some pretty good. But it seems that everybody agrees that an expansion of the PZ would be a good thing and add to the overall game play.
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AAARGGH!!!!

Post by Palomides »

Way too complicated. Any flag that needs that much description is excessive.
The base issue that PZ is pretty sucky would best be solved, IMHO, by simply removing it from the next version.
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Post by anomaly »

nice idea. you wouldn't need two world maps, just add a bzw option like 'zoned'. When a box, pyr or mesh has the 'zoned' option it is only drawn when you are zoned. The idea of compensating flags works too. Maybe even if the box, pyr or mesh (or whatever) does not have the 'zoned' option it would only be visible to the non-zoned player.
Actually having an additional option like that would make it possible to have multiple worlds in one map depending on certain factors. Zoned or not. A person going through a tagged teleporter would themself be tagged and only see the objects tagged with that option tag.
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Re: AAARGGH!!!!

Post by hlfmnhlfamazing »

Palomides wrote:Way too complicated. Any flag that needs that much description is excessive.
The base issue that PZ is pretty sucky would best be solved, IMHO, by simply removing it from the next version.
It doesn't have to be complicated. It could be just as simple as expanding the PZ so that it becomes it's own suedo world. There doesn't need to be any extras at all. No changes to the PZ flag itself, no changes to add in flags into the phantom zone. Just add in the ability for phantom-zone-platforms and obstructions.

It's that simple.
Palomides wrote:Windows Vista 'sux.' Any dissenters will be ranted at.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a most excellent signature.
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Nah.

Post by Palomides »

I still think the flag should be trashed. Adding another map for PZ would not really add anything to the game; it would just add another map to get used to.
hlfmnhlfamazing wrote:
Palomides wrote:Windows Vista 'sux.' Any dissenters will be ranted at.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a most excellent signature.
Heehee...thanks.
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Post by Grace F »

I don't think it should be trashed. Though it just might if no will actually sit down and do this. I would do it... if I knew what I was doing :?
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Post by halo3 »

palomides wrote: Windows Vista 'sux.' Any dissenters will be ranted at.
uhhhh isnt that a little off topic
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Post by Grace F »

halo3 wrote:
palomides wrote: Windows Vista 'sux.' Any dissenters will be ranted at.
uhhhh isnt that a little off topic
ahh isn't that a little off topic? :P


I personally don't think this idea is too difficult. The only difficulty they'd come across is having 2 completely different worlds. Not so much the flags, as their all pretty much the same.
anomoly wrote:nice idea. you wouldn't need two world maps, just add a bzw option like 'zoned'. When a box, pyr or mesh has the 'zoned' option it is only drawn when you are zoned. The idea of compensating flags works too. Maybe even if the box, pyr or mesh (or whatever) does not have the 'zoned' option it would only be visible to the non-zoned player.
Actually having an additional option like that would make it possible to have multiple worlds in one map depending on certain factors. Zoned or not. A person going through a tagged teleporter would themself be tagged and only see the objects tagged with that option tag.
That's pretty much the idea :)
Last edited by Grace F on Tue May 01, 2007 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by meeba »

I think making it so that there are PZ-only objects would be awesome.

Think about it... a map with only PZ flags. :)

Two battles going on at once with bullets flying through tanks and everything.

Just this alone would make PZ quite a fun flag.
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Post by Grace F »

R3laX kind of made a map like this. A whole map of PZ, with huge walls and only way to pass the walls was by getting PZ, using a teleporter and then going through. It was called Phantom Zone War!.
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Post by that exploding tank »

Really, all you would have to do is raise your map about 100 on the Z axis and have the "zone" world right below.
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Post by macsforme »

TangenT wrote:I think making it so that there are PZ-only objects would be awesome.

Think about it... a map with only PZ flags. :)

Two battles going on at once with bullets flying through tanks and everything.

Just this alone would make PZ quite a fun flag.
Yes, agreed. However, I don't think there are ever any bzflag games with enough people to run two games "side by side" at once. For that matter, there aren't many games with a lot of people in them, period. Maybe a bandwidth issue, or maybe there just aren't any appropriate maps. That would probably need to change before such a complex game-within-a-game concept is considered.
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Post by alphamugwump »

The real advantage to this proposal is the possibility of different physics in the same world. It would be cool to have antigravity, vertical elevators, and so on.

While you're making sweeping changes, why not add several zones. To enter a zone, you need to go through a teleport. However, a teleport may take you to a different destination depending on what flag you are carrying. In other words, you might need a flag to change zones, or you might not. And in the interest of generality, it would switch on any flag. For example:

SW:
teleport 1

GM:
teleport 2

No flag
teleport 3

everything else:
teleport 4


Of course, a teleport can only be present in one zone at a time, but you could "stack" teleports on top of each other in order to make it look like you passed straight through into another zone.

This might be more useful if there were a slew of "user" flags U1 to U9 that could be used for anything. This would probably also help out server hackers, etc.

Other ideas:

* Put each base in its own zone, and only let people in if they have the flag. Spawn camping prevention, etc.

* Vertical elevators: make a zone with negative gravity and wings for everyone, but you can't turn, back up, or jump. You go through a teleport, and fall up. Hopefully you drive into the teleport at the top before you go shooting up into the sky.

* Zero gravity tanks

* Really hellish mazes, maps that "reconfigure" themselves, etc.

* Change the weapon variables for each zone. IE, one zone with overlord rules and one zone with mofo rules.

* a different zone for each team, so each team can have different variables. The only weapons are SW and SB

* "no radar" zones, "no wings" zones, "no ricochet zones", "no jumping" zones, etc. Force people to change their style as they move across a CTF map. Have a server plugin rotate the variables to keep people from camping.

And so on.
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