Rewards for kills/caps

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Rewards for kills/caps

Post by Stij » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:14 pm

This is an idea that's been explored in many multiplayer games before, and IMO is perfect for BZflag.

Upon reaching a certain number of points (or caps, if it's a CTF map), you get a certain reward every time you spawn. If you drop under that number of points, you obviously lose the reward.

Rewards could range from automatically spawning with a flag to increasing your tank's abilities (in other words, speed, turning, number of shots, that sort of thing). When you get the rewards and what they are vary from server to server, obviously.

This could also be used to do the the reverse, and give players with low scores a "handicap".

What do you guys think? Shouldn't be that hard to impliment, I imagine...

EDIT: Also, this could encourage people to actually CAP flags in CTF and not just kill each other...

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Post by L4m3r » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:31 pm

I think that permanent rewards for doing well would be like an anti-handicap, giving a greater advantage to more skilled players.

I like the idea of giving rewards for each capture, i.e. you get a GM after you capture the flag, but only once.
Optimism is just a milder alternative to denial.

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Post by Peter » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:50 pm

Maby when you cap it gives a GM to the lowest scoring player in your team then.
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:53 pm

Rewards for capping seems like a good idea...
Unless you happen to have played a massive part in the capping of the flag, but you weren't the one to get it on the base.
Calculating who else should be rewarded, not just the capper (who may have had very little to do with the cap) is necessary but extremely difficult.
So, we reward for kills to, right? Since that is most likely how you helped cap without actually putting the flag on the base, right?
Ok, lets give all the players who make a lot of kills a reward.
In other words: lets give all the best players an advantage.
Even more simply: lets help the best players kill a higher number of other tanks more easily and in less time.
If they are good enough to deserve a reward... they don't need it.

So, yeah, it seems like a good idea but, imho, is actually a pretty bad one.
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Post by Stij » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:35 pm

True, but you could always do the opposite and give the lowest scoring players an advantage (now that I think about it, that's a much better idea).

Also, I agree with what you said about the flag capping issue, there's really no way around that.

A few more ideas:

1) the losing team in CTF gets a slight handicap.

2) the rabbit in rabbit hunt gets a handicap. This is actually kind of like the "Juggernaut" game type in Halo, where all the players team up against one very powerful player.

-------------------------------------------

Another possible variation on this would be a map (would work best as a CTF map) where one team is very small compared to the others (max of 5 people maybe) but all the players on it have a powerful handicap. Might encourage more strategic play, strength in numbers and all that.

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Post by Grace F » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:38 pm

Preferably, giving rewards for capping would be best.

If your on a team and your team caps, you have played somewhat a small part into the capping of the other team. Simply killing another players means 1 less player the Flag runner need worry about. Even if you hadn't been within 100 BZflag tiles of the flag, you have contributed.

So, my best guess is to reward the whole team, this sounds unfair but there could be a way to reward the whole team without making the teams too unfair. Perhaps the reward isn't a flag or Tank Bonus ie. Faster Speed/Turning rate etc. But rather something to do with the other teams flag. Maybe the other teams flag spawns outside the base, it could even fall from the sky into the middle of the arena.

To expand more on that idea everytime 1 team caps, the opposing teams flag appears in the sky (cannot be seen in other words), within about 5 minutes (giving teams time to flood the middle), the flag falls from the sky landing somewhat near the centre of the arena giving each team a 50/50 chance. This is an Advantage to the Team trying to cap that flag but an obvious disadvantage to the other team trying to return that flag.


But I don't agree on giving the players with the highest points anymore of an advantage.
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Post by Legolas_ » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:47 pm

Look at the Progressive Flag mode, I think it was made by slayer++ but I am not completly sure. It has similar characteristics, such as when you kill a x amount of people you get a flag, after x amount more you get a better flag, etc. This, however, only applies to one person, and not the team. I'm sure some c++ could create a good plugin which will allow the flag/reward to go to the entire team of said player.

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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:03 am

Grace F wrote:Maybe the other teams flag spawns outside the base, it could even fall from the sky into the middle of the arena.

To expand more on that idea everytime 1 team caps, the opposing teams flag appears in the sky (cannot be seen in other words), within about 5 minutes (giving teams time to flood the middle), the flag falls from the sky landing somewhat near the centre of the arena giving each team a 50/50 chance. This is an Advantage to the Team trying to cap that flag but an obvious disadvantage to the other team trying to return that flag.
I dunno about this, it might give an unfair advantage to a winning team.

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Post by *Boinkage*! » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:25 am

Well....
Scenario one:You went all the way, by yourself. You should get a large bonus.
Scenario two:You went all the way, but teammates sniper people within 15 tiles of you (chasers). You get a decent reward, the teammates get a small reward.
Scenario three:You did most of the effort. The more distance covered=the better the award. medium reward for you, small for capper.
Scenario four: You did 50%. Both get decent reward.
Scenario five: You did some, then your teammates did the rest. Small for you, medium for the capper.
Scenario Six: Several teammates did the effort. Divide it up according to distance traveled.
I think that sums it up.
Rewards could range from 3 extra shots to fast speed to auto-shield to fast turning. They could also be a disadvantage for the other team for some time, such as less shots, longer reloads, and slower driving.
For carrying all the way with no help whatsoever...5 extra shots, triple bullet speed, laser that has normal reload, or even a special where if you kill three players in a minute, all the other team dies.
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Post by L4m3r » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:09 am

There isn't really a way to code any of that. you'd need to have an admin watching and awarding points or something.
Optimism is just a milder alternative to denial.

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Post by Grace F » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:28 am

Stij wrote:
Grace F wrote:Maybe the other teams flag spawns outside the base, it could even fall from the sky into the middle of the arena.

To expand more on that idea everytime 1 team caps, the opposing teams flag appears in the sky (cannot be seen in other words), within about 5 minutes (giving teams time to flood the middle), the flag falls from the sky landing somewhat near the centre of the arena giving each team a 50/50 chance. This is an Advantage to the Team trying to cap that flag but an obvious disadvantage to the other team trying to return that flag.
I dunno about this, it might give an unfair advantage to a winning team.
It's like the for both teams though. Imagine being capped on, their team spread out everywhere, your team all spawning at the same time, flooding the middle at the same time and shooting at the same time. As your all attacking clearing the center shouldn't be too hard. All you need to do now is to hold it untill your flag falls then simply picking it up and dropping it over something slanted ie. Pyramid will easily sends it back to base.

Nothing really is fair. This isn't too much of a disadvantage and it will IMO be a fun change to the way a team works together.
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Post by Tedius » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:55 am

I think it would be enough just to show the flag cap stats along-side the score. When only one person is doing the capturing his or her score usually goes down the tubes because everyone is aiming at that person. If I had a score of -40, I would be happy enough saying, "Yeah, but look, I have 4 caps, and I've carried the flag 2100 bz units."

No real "reward" except bragging rights, unlikely that flag cappers would be tked for that.
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:32 am

Tedius makes an excellent point.
A while back there was a topic (search for it) about abolishing individual player scores (dependent on kills). The idea never came about, but I will always say, some other scoring method has to be better on CTF, what Tedius suggests would be great.
Perhaps an actual Cap would be worth 1 point and carrying any team flag (yes, your own too, to encourage returning your flag - but how this would work with flag-passing I'm not sure) towards your own (roughly) base accumulates points too, perhaps 0.005 for each bzw unit.
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Post by Grace F » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:54 am

Tedius wrote:I think it would be enough just to show the flag cap stats along-side the score. When only one person is doing the capturing his or her score usually goes down the tubes because everyone is aiming at that person. If I had a score of -40, I would be happy enough saying, "Yeah, but look, I have 4 caps, and I've carried the flag 2100 bz units."

No real "reward" except bragging rights, unlikely that flag cappers would be tked for that.
That would be really good to have. I know myself what it's like to be looked down upon for having -23, but in that time I had capped like 10 times.
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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:33 pm

CannonBallGuy wrote:Tedius makes an excellent point.
A while back there was a topic (search for it) about abolishing individual player scores (dependent on kills). The idea never came about, but I will always say, some other scoring method has to be better on CTF, what Tedius suggests would be great.
Perhaps an actual Cap would be worth 1 point and carrying any team flag (yes, your own too, to encourage returning your flag - but how this would work with flag-passing I'm not sure) towards your own (roughly) base accumulates points too, perhaps 0.005 for each bzw unit.
That's a great idea, but I can see a potential problem: you could cheat and earn points just by moving your flag back and forth towards your base. Unless you found some way to work around that...

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Post by *Boinkage*! » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:06 pm

How about going ~away~ from your base deducts that many points. moving more then 300 bzw units away will blow you up, and put the flag where it started. that'll prevent people from teamcapping, and every 100 units, you get a notification.
Now, my idea for the rewards is it counts the number of units you move toward your base. Then, based on that (and if your teammates sniped or not), it gives out rewards.EDIT: The forum seems to delete my spaces... but just imagine each column as a row, OK?

---------------REWARDS TABLE----------------------------------------
Small Decent Medium
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick turning. Speed boost. Constant Cloak.
Small speed boost. 2 extra shots. Constant Stealth.
Extra shot. Shields. 3 extra shots.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 extra shots.
Free laser.
Toggle able OO.
Kill 3 enemies in a minute to kill whole team.
Triple ammunition(shot limit).
3 shields.
Free SB.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just plain stupid
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unlimited shots.
Constant L,GM,G,CL,ST,OO,SB,IB,and SE
:D :twisted: .
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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:15 pm

*Boinkage*! wrote: How about going ~away~ from your base deducts that many points. moving more then 300 bzw units away will blow you up, and put the flag where it started. that'll prevent people from teamcapping, and every 100 units, you get a notification
The only problem with that is, what if you want to hide your flag someplace away from your base? You'd lose points for doing so. Also, if you pick up your flag when it's near an opponent's base (to return it), you die, which seems kinda wrong to me.

Also, those rewards are waaaaaay overpowered, IMHO.

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:50 pm

Yes, those rewards are too much. The max reward would be, for example, one extra shot on a 6 shot server... Or a 10% speed boost.

And the problem with players taking flags away from their base... I'm outta ideas. Whatever we think of HAS to be reasonably easy to code.
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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:16 pm

Hmmm. *scratches nonexsistant beard*

Idea (this may be a bit too complex):

You don't lose points for bringing the flag away from your base. You do, however, earn a point for bringing your flag X bzunits towards your base (dunno what X would be).

HOWEVER, after you score a point from doing this, there is a limited amount of time before you can score this way again.

What do you guys think?

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Post by Grace F » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:38 pm

Stij wrote: You don't lose points for bringing the flag away from your base. You do, however, earn a point for bringing your flag X bzunits towards your base (dunno what X would be).

HOWEVER, after you score a point from doing this, there is a limited amount of time before you can score this way again.
I like the idea that there is a certain amount of time before you can score another point. That will stop people from intentionally dragging out the flag and returning.

But what about if your at the enemies base with your team flag, the best and fastest way to return it is drop it over a slanted object. As the flag goes back automatically, do you still get a point for this?
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Post by Legolas_ » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:38 pm

These are way too big to be rewards.

I agree, it should show flag caps on the side of the scoreboard, that would be perfect.

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Post by Stij » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:47 pm

Grace F wrote: But what about if your at the enemies base with your team flag, the best and fastest way to return it is drop it over a slanted object. As the flag goes back automatically, do you still get a point for this?
Hmm, probably not. I dunno.

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Post by *Boinkage*! » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:51 pm

IDEA: When moving back, you don't get points for moving back to your base.
Moving closER to an enemy base for 10 seconds would work.
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Post by Stij » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:14 pm

....What?

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Post by sussi » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:22 pm

... with players taking flags away from their base... I'm outta ideas. Whatever we think of HAS to be reasonably easy to code.
just make from the distance (radial the the base) points. + for /getting their/hiding own flag, negative for bring it out. That would be better than to give score for each single blown opponent.

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