Page 1 of 1

Artillery as a flag?Similar to the mortar/fragmentation idea

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:16 am
by Red Shift Blue Shift
I'm curious if anyone discussed artillery as a flag?

I was thinking about this a couple days after I started playing, I'm new, so if this was already discussed, please notify me. However, I did some searching in the forum and ran across a previous discussion about mortar/fragmentation warheads that travel in direct relationship to the amount of time a user holds down the mouse button in June.

Or a more complicated alternative (I would much rather prefer the previous idea however): one could operate in semblance to the way games like scorched earth (point in the direction your target is, adjust barrel angle, select how much power). Again, the first idea seems most suitable though.

Some possible advantages:
-Very long range (though not infinite)
-shots are fired over obstacles
-relatively large detonation radius at 8% or 10% (though much less absolute than sw-perhaps make the explosion a cluster of 5 traditional bullets that scatter upon impact?)

-*possibly have an option to set for proximity charge? this could also be used against winged tanks in a way akin to anti aircraft guns. How would this be possible in the context of making it intuitive and usable?

Possible disadvantages:
-Tank becomes almost stationary except pivoting/rotation (maybe have some forward/backward motion, but at something like 5 or 3 units per second), no jumping regardless of server (like with burrow)
-Shot travels slowly
-very long reload time (does 15% sound reasonable?)
-rarity of flag, like geno?
-if not enough d/as, also have reduced window visibility/radar?

This could make game play for many historical re-enactments possible too, but how would it influence traditional game play and the current balance between the flags?

[edit-never mind, I just found the wiki, I'll submit this to the wiki instead, however, discussion is still welcome]
I simplified some of the stuff too:
The distance the warhead travels is in direct relation to how long fire button is held down. Projectile flies in an arc exiting from tank at 45 degrees (no vertical aim required)

possible advantages: -Very long range (though still finite unlike laser) -shots may be fired over obstacles -relatively large warhead, radius at 5%, 8%, or 10%, of normal bullet range though much less absolute than sw-perhaps the shot would be a cluster of 5 traditional bullets that travel together in an arc upon firing -can function akin to anti aircraft guns against wg as well

Possible disadvantages: -Tank becomes almost stationary except pivoting/rotation (maybe have some forward/backward motion, but at something like 5 or 3 units per second), or no jumping regardless of server (like with burrow) -Shot travels slowly -very long reload time (does 15% sound reasonable?) -rarity of flag, like geno? -binocular view and radar only when used?

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:31 am
by slon02
good idea. I would like to see this in the game. But, along with many other cool features, I doubt this will get added.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:56 am
by macsforme
slon02 wrote:good idea. I would like to see this in the game. But, along with many other cool features, I doubt this will get added.
Two things must happen in order for a new feature to be implemented. First, the idea itself must be within the confines of what the project leaders want in the game. In other words, it must be approved. Secondly, someone must do the work and code it up.

As far as getting it approved, join the #bzflag IRC channel on the Freenode network and ask if your idea is something they want. As far as getting it done, either code it up yourself or convince someone else to do it.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:46 am
by Spazzy McGee
I can see the powers that be not liking this idea. There have been shot-with-SW-at-the-end flags vetoed before. And I bet they say it's too complicated, and too much effort to be implemented (I respect them for that - it's thier time afterall)

That said, I personally think it's a great idea. The whole holding down the button to choose when it detonates is interesting. What happens if you just quickly press/click? surely the shell would detonate instantly, blowing you up. Perhaps if you don't detonate within the radius of the blast, It travels for a default distance before blowing up? Or perhaps rather than having a click-hold system, have a system whereby you click to fire, then click again to detonate. This adds a nice disadvantage - that you can't fire more than one bullet at a time.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:05 pm
by Joe-Schmoe
Maybe forward or backward motion could be used to modify the trajectory. So you could accelerate forward to make the shot go higher, or something like that. I think "click and hold" or "click twice" would make the flag too different from the rest of the game.

Instead of having SW at the end, maybe it just fires a bunch of bullets at once, which sort of spread out as they travel? That way when they land wherever they land, they cover a large-ish area.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:22 pm
by joevano
Wouldn't this kind of fall into the turret having to be able to move up or down? That would be a no go from the development standpoint

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:18 pm
by Spazzy McGee
Wouldn't this kind of fall into the turret having to be able to move up or down?
No, not really. The turret doesn't need to move at all.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:13 pm
by F687/s
So, this is basically what you're describing (correct me if I'm wrong):

You want to make a flag where shots move along a fixed parabolic trajectory, where the distance and height are directly related to how long the fire button is held down. When the shot lands on a surface, a small shock wave (or similar) is emitted, killing all people around the surface. The possible limitations are no jumping, no movement across the ground while charging, (possibly) no rotation while charging, long reload time, and it's almost impossible to shoot two rounds next to each other.

While I like the idea, there are a few things that need clarification.

First of all, the first thing that needs done is to make sure that the minimum distance of the round is somewhat equal to the distance it is launched. Obviously, the first thing a newb is going to do is to fire one quickly and blow himself up in the process. Something needs to be done about that. Another thing is that there is no easy way to adjust the power except for holding it down. It seems like you would really need some smoke tracers to get it done right. Also, it would probably be in everyone's benefit if there was a maximum range that the shots could achieve.

Other than that, it sounds cool.

Response...

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:14 am
by Red Shift Blue Shift
Hi, I'm actually using the name The Artichoke Singularity now, but to clarify, this was what I thought of so far (I rearranged all the flags and posted this in the bzflag wiki), I'm actually surprised that other people responded! Furthermore, I'm glad that others have expressed some excitement about it too though I'll admit that there are lots of things that would take more coding (making a range indicator or something), and I certainly don't know how or who yet.

The distance the warhead travels is in direct relation to how long fire button is held down. Projectile flies in an arc exiting from tank at 45 degrees (no vertical aim required). Range indicated above HUD as RANGE:### (counter advances as fire button is held down).

possible advantages: -Very long range (though still finite unlike laser) -shots may be fired over obstacles -relatively large warhead, radius at 5%, 8%, or 10%, of normal bullet range though much less absolute than sw-perhaps the shot would be a cluster of 5 traditional bullets that travel together in an arc upon firing -can function akin to anti aircraft guns against wg as well

Possible disadvantages: -Tank becomes almost stationary except pivoting/rotation (maybe have some forward/backward motion, but at something like 5 or 3 units per second), or no jumping regardless of server (like with burrow) -Shot travels slowly, has close minimum range, shot lands where machine gun terminates at minimum release (as such player can't immediately hurt self, which actually aids the learning process) -very long reload time (does 15% sound reasonable?) -rarity of flag, like geno? -binocular view and radar only when used?

edit-thanks Constitution, I'll do so if I get a chance. As of right now, someone else might be better off trying to do the convincing if they really want the flag soon as I haven't the time to contribute as much as I wanted to before.