Flag Idea: Team Shield

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Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by Cobra_Fast » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:14 am

I just had this idea of a new flag: Team Shield
It appears like a static sphere around a tank (sphere size set by bzdb var, but i suggest it to be 2 times to 3 times tank length radius) where other tanks can drive in and are save from normal bullets. SB and SW (and maybe L?) go through the shield as they would do everywhere else.
The point is: enemy tanks could also drive inside the shield and kill the shield tank from inside the shield to make this not too strong.
Also the shield tank may gets double (or infinite?) reload time to prevent something similar to god-mode.

the outer and inner appearance to players would be like a shockwave sphere but with more transparency.
i'm not sure if shots would bounce off (rico) or just die when hitting the shield.

Point of this flag:
having a guy with the team-shield flag on your team could be great advantage on CTF maps (so i admit its rather useless on FFA) because teammates would be protected on their way to the enemies base. This could be great especially for camping ctf maps like 'Castle Warfare'.

Please give it a chance before bumping it off :P

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by hutty » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:00 pm

hmm... this sounds a lot like other flag ideas, but I do agree, some new type of shield has to come in. If everyone is asking for a better shield, and the topic allways get bumped off, something is not right.
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by darkid » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:06 pm

Little bit too powerful, maybe a time delay?
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by Cobra_Fast » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:07 pm

yeah maybe make the shield go down after blocking a set number of bullets.

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by joevano » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:11 pm

huttymuncher wrote:hmm... this sounds a lot like other flag ideas, but I do agree, some new type of shield has to come in. If everyone is asking for a better shield, and the topic allways get bumped off, something is not right.
This is NOT a democracy, but many assume it is. Having a single shot shield flag is a conscious game play decision made by the core development team, it's not going to be different in the foreseeable future.
Cobra_Fast wrote:I just had this idea of a new flag: Team Shield
Also not a new idea...
http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f ... ld#p143357
http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f ... ld#p142571
Etc.
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by hutty » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:50 am

what about a shield flag that shields more shots if the server has more shots.

for example, on a one shot server the shield flag would shield 1 shot
while a 4 shot sever the flag would simply shield 4 shots.
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by blast » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:48 am

huttymuncher wrote:what about a shield flag that shields more shots if the server has more shots.

for example, on a one shot server the shield flag would shield 1 shot
while a 4 shot sever the flag would simply shield 4 shots.
That idea has already been shot down before. Pun intended.
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by adameros » Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:06 pm

How about a shield that deflects joevano's shots when he says, "code it your self," or, "this is not a democracy," or otherwise is hostile to suggestions on a forum that specifically tells people to, "Make suggestions for improving one of the best games on the net!"

;)

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by blast » Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:08 pm

Maybe we should add the word "good" to the description. ;)

But really. Ideas are a dime a dozen. But they remain ideas if nobody codes them. (though even some that are coded will not get put into the game... there are specific design decisions that we follow)
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by hutty » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:33 pm

You can't really say "code it yourself", yes this is an open source project, but most of us no nothing about programming. I myself know a little java and that's is.
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by joevano » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:52 pm

huttymuncher wrote:You can't really say "code it yourself", yes this is an open source project, but most of us no nothing about programming.


Sure you can, and I do. Ignorance is never an excuse to NOT do something. Everyone has to learn sometime and this is as good a place to try as anywhere. It may take a while but in the end if you really want it, you will make it happen. As blast said ideas are a dime a dozen... developers are not. If you want your idea developed someone has to do it, and it may as well be you. We are always looking for help. All of our developers do this as a hobby and it can be your hobby too (wether you know the language yet, or not). The developers already have their own ideas and agendas for where the game is going. You can like where they are going or hope that one of them thinks your idea is good enough to incorporate into their vision OR you can do it yourself. In my experience doing it yourself is WAY more successful! So my advice to you, as always is:

"Code it up..."

Technically, I don't think I have ever said "code it yourself", I prefer the much less rude "Code it up..."
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by Cobra_Fast » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:55 pm

So, assume I have coded this flag (or something else); Where would I hand in my modified source-files to get them into the project?

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by joevano » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:09 pm

You would submit them as a patch to the project on sourceforge. They would have to fit the goals of the project and actually be maintainable code. Sending a patch to sourceforge, out of the blue, for a new feature is a shot in the dark, at best. If it doesn't fit with the vision of the game, it will just sit out there and never go anywhere. The better way to do it, is to come out to the development IRC channel [#bzflag irc.freenode.net] and discuss the idea. Once it has been hashed out as to wether it is an idea that fits into the project as is, with agreed modifications, or not at all [the, 'this is not a democracy' statement comes from here]... if a positive consensus for the possibility is reached, then your direction is set and there is a much better chance it will make it in. There are definite things that will NEVER be in the project, as have been stated many times in these forums (this is a simple game after all). The best thing is to discuss with the current developers, real/semi-realtime on IRC to get some shared direction... the key is communication during the process. Even then there are factors that may make it difficult to include the code (quality, maintainability, etc), but at least there will be a better chance and open dialog.

You're other option is to fork the project (it is open-source), and put whatever crazy flags you want into it. Of course you would have to get people to follow. We take long term game-play into every flag decision. Anything that would unbalance the game is quickly rejected. The game hasn't been active as long as it has because of bad decisions...
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by JeffM » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:46 pm

Tim has said he does not want any shield that can take more then one hit, for any reason.

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by hutty » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:15 pm

I like JeffM's answer the best.

its clear and strait forward.

although I would like to ask tim why?

Thats why these thing keep comeing up.

You tell us no but never why. Apparently you see this as a bad idea and expect us to see what you do. But we don't. You say it unbalances gameplay, well how does it. Why not give an example?
Instead of shoving us away, why don't you try to prove that we are wrong?
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by JeffM » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:34 pm

The short answer is "Because it adds complexity to the game".

The long answer is;
It is a design choice, it has no real technical reason. The answer to why many features are reject is often "because that's not what we want BZFlag to be".

The general design goal is to make a game where each shot counts, something that plays more like chess then like quake. Enhancements that favor the "spray and pray" mentality take the game further away from it's intended design. Flags that allow multiple hits like this one push the game in that direction.

Tim's mantra is "BZFlag is simple to pick up, challenging to master". This means that flags need to be very simple to use and describe and have very clear pro/con trade-offs, or very simple effects.

There is no wrong or right when it comes to features. Many features are great ideas, but are just outside of the scope of what the project design team wants in the mainline codebase. These features would be perfectly fine in a fork or variant of BZFlag . You have to remember that BZFlag is not a democracy, it is a game and has focused game design goals.

I'd love to see a game based on BZFlag that did more complex stuff. I think there is a need for that game and a lot of people would play it. It just isn't BZFlag.

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by hutty » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:58 pm

Wow that reponse totaly trums mine, even when I used tha angry face.

I see what you mean now.

but I still think having a 1 shot shield flag on a 5 shot server is a little pointless
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by JeffM » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:00 pm

not all flags make sense with all server settings. It is up to the server owner to set up a game that is fun and makes sense with all the various options.

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by Ragnarok » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:15 pm

JeffM wrote:not all flags make sense with all server settings. It is up to the server owner to set up a game that is fun and makes sense with all the various options.
Then why don't you make an option that asks you if you want to include that flag or other flags? That way, if the flag doesn't fit into a certain server, it doesn't have to be in that server.
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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by JeffM » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:23 pm

Server owners can set flags individually with the +f command. Having the server "ask" would not be conducive to systems that automatically start servers. It is assumed that a server owner knows what he/she is doing before choosing to run a server.

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Re: Flag Idea: Team Shield

Post by Cobra_Fast » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:24 am

Well you still could include "custom" flags then, you'd just not put them into the good/bad set (+f good), so server owners who'd want them could select them manually.

(I know this has been suggested before!)

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