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Faster Rabbits

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:52 pm
by alfa1
Why? Because, in the real life rabbit chase, the rabbit has this advantage; if not, as nowadays, the rabbit dies a lot (think on 9 vs. 1, i. e.). I understand it is not possible by plugins since we want still allow it to get flags at once. Maybe, also, allowing to set its speed variation through a variable or a server argument.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:14 pm
by Zehra
I think this would be an improvement as the rabbit should have a bit of a speed advantage, but not enough that prevents people from getting them.
The speed might also be able to be adjusted depending on number of players.
If there were one hunter and one rabbit, then there would not be a change in speed, but if there were four hunters, then the rabbit would have a 5 percent speed increase over the hunters.

-Zehra

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:23 pm
by macsforme
You are taking away the opportunity for highly skilled players who can hold off a bunch of others to truly shine. Rabbit hunt is not about having fair odds as the rabbit.

Also, altering the tank speed may throw movements/jumps off on some maps, where geometry is spaced apart very specifically.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:39 pm
by alfa1
Constitution wrote:You are taking away the opportunity for highly skilled players who can hold off a bunch of others to truly shine.
As I said, I usually/always see that rabbits die a lot; as much as it makes rabbit chase gamestyle hard to enjoy. I really don't remember or don't see at all those "highly skilled players". Again, think, in any map, if you have 9 players versus 1; how much will that one last? Seconds.
Constitution wrote:Rabbit hunt is not about having fair odds as the rabbit.
I didn't mean "fair odds", but giving the rabbit a bit more of advantage, of power, to make it easier for it. Another case to be implemented could be, I remember now, using more than 1 rabbit at once, like a team. It could depend on a fixed number or on a percentage according to players' amount; both as a server argument.
Constitution wrote:Also, altering the tank speed may throw movements/jumps off on some maps, where geometry is spaced apart very specifically.
Yes, I agree somehow, but also think on the V flag which usually is enabled on R. C. maps. If it is enabled by design then think on this speed advantage as if it was always enabled for the rabbit. Nothing too bad/outstanding.

Just to clarify, this would be *optional*, since you could adjust the variation of rabbit speed by a server argument or variable, being able to disable it (setting it to 0, let's say), to maintain the nowadays style.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:20 am
by JeffM
The original design for Rabbit Chase did have faster rabbits, but as a trade off, they could not shoot. The current version with vicious rabbits removes the speed but allows them to shoot.

This could be done with a plug-in with a minor API enhancement by using the handicap system

https://github.com/JeffM2501/bzflag/com ... 721ee9bea0

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:15 pm
by alfa1
Thanks, JeffM, for your contribution. I had not thought about the handicap system but now I see it. Regarding to the "adding more rabbits" case, I guess this can be done with a plugin and teams (like team balancing one); though, I wonder if it could manage orange and grey colors in any way.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:07 pm
by blast
While the rabbit is a proper team in 2.4, our logic may still only work for a single rabbit. For instance, there isn't a generic 'change team' message in our protocol, just a 'new rabbit' message.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:31 am
by optic delusion
Howabout....
The rabbit is the only one who can jump?

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am
by tainn
I would be down for more team-specific limited access. One aspect I have thought of the most is a drivethrough wall, but you can only drive through it if you belong to a certain team.

If a core change would be done that would allow for matters like that, it could lead to some interesting development in maps and their strategies. Rabbit hunt included.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:40 pm
by alfa1
optic delusion wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:31 am
Howabout....
The rabbit is the only one who can jump?
tainn wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am
I would be down for more team-specific limited access. One aspect I have thought of the most is a drivethrough wall, but you can only drive through it if you belong to a certain team.

If a core change would be done that would allow for matters like that, it could lead to some interesting development in maps and their strategies. Rabbit hunt included.
Both ideas seems good to be added to the list of potential new variables. On the "wall" case, I think I remember from Mystic Valley - Rabbit Chase that the rabbit had little "houses", then with special walls for them, they could hide there, like having OO.

BTW, the JeffM's link seems lost on some tries. I will keep searching for it.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:02 am
by Zehra
While I have not yet attempted it, I've strongly considered the possibility of "per" team attributes on objects, such as death, drive-through and shoot-through.
Although I am uncertain of it, the possibility of doing so within the current protocol came to me after completing the TeamDeathZones plug-in.

If it is possible to "send" different maps or rather variations of a specified map, we can easily have per-team attributes on objects.
This in practice means that the client receives a different map based on it's team, so we send a map which has certain death objects that the other maps would not include, thus granting "per-team" death objects.(Although it does not take place in actuality, it perfectly simulates it, which is good enough for now.)

-Zehra

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:20 pm
by trpted
Here is/are my two cents.

On date and time of posting, there is/are a total of 184 publicly listed servers. Out of those (again correct on date and time of posted), with these stats:

Number of servers with players = 40

Number of servers with OBS = 7

Number of servers with CTF's = 117

Number of servers with FFA = 59

Number of servers with OFFA = 2

and last but not least number of servers with rabbit chase (any version of rabbit chase. Using filter #4 set to /+rabbit) = 6.

--

More stats, as of right now as I post this.

The only rabbit chase with players = Rabbit - Test - Tuxee/Contribusted - [Europe] - Updated 2016-09-01.

No players on OFFA.

There is only one server with players doing plain FFA.

There is only the following servers with players doing CTF: Two Tanks Laser Snipping, Apocalypse TwentyTwenty! : Planet-MoFo, and Alpine Assault (R4) by LouMan.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:19 pm
by JeffM
These are diffs of that commit from the removed GitHub fork. Do with them what you will.

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:40 pm
by alfa1
Thank you very much, JeffM!

By the way, I ask developers (in the case I did it): would a modified server with this patch (with the objetive of making future plug-ins) be allowed to be hosted publically (on the List Server)?

Thanks, Zehra and trpted, for your contributions!

Re: Faster Rabbits

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:04 am
by JeffM
it's a trivial API change, it does not affect the protocol or gamplay in any real way. It uses a system that's already in the game. I would think that would be fully within the guidelines of the list server.
Don't be so worried about what is and is not allowed ;)