More powerful API

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Zehra
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More powerful API

Post by Zehra » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:18 pm

Currently we can control shot types among other things.
If flag effects could be granted, it could lead to the creation of pretty interesting modes and maps.
Tanks disappear by driving into a fog, SE can fly, Team flags provide quick turn... etc...

This can alter the game play and introduce new modes and maps which weren't possible before.
I'm certain this will require a protocol break, but it would be nice to see implemented.

-Zehra
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JeffM
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Re: More powerful API

Post by JeffM » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:55 am

That has nothing to do with the API, the server can’t even do that itself. The things you are talking about are hard coded in the client as part of the flag itself.

There are also gameplay reasons to limit combinations, not all combos are fun or fair.

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Re: More powerful API

Post by Zehra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:21 am

That has nothing to do with the API, the server can’t even do that itself. The things you are talking about are hard coded in the client as part of the flag itself.
I know, just hoping that this could be made in a future version. (Flag effects being able to be added/removed by the API.)
There are also gameplay reasons to limit combinations, not all combos are fun or fair.
Several flags which weren't added to the official flags were implemented as custom flags instead.
The same would be done here, except now there is a few more options at hand.

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
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Re: More powerful API

Post by JeffM » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:52 am

If you knew that, then your post is mistitled, you want server control over flag effects independent of the actual flag. The current title makes it sound like the api is simply missing features. When the core isssue is the game itself doesn’t support the features you want.

The core features you are talking about have been talked about for a long time, nobody had implemented them during a protocol break. It usually goes along with shot management changes.

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Re: More powerful API

Post by macsforme » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:31 am

Infinite variation does not make for a good experience. Several of our remaining developers agree that we should be trying to make the core game mechanics more consistent, not more varied. Making superflags do things other than what they were intended for (such as allowing tanks with Seer to fly) will likely not be the direction we are going.

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Re: More powerful API

Post by Zehra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:17 pm

If you knew that, then your post is mistitled, you want server control over flag effects independent of the actual flag. The current title makes it sound like the api is simply missing features.
I probably should have chosen a better title. :doh:
When the core isssue is the game itself doesn’t support the features you want.
It depends if there is support and development to add/enhance the features to the game.
Infinite variation does not make for a good experience..
I agree, too much variations lead to a bad experience, but if they are all contained in a single game mode, it can lead to more varied game play.
Several of our remaining developers agree that we should be trying to make the core game mechanics more consistent, not more varied.
I agree, but I'm thinking the consistency will come from making boxes/meshes/meshboxes/meshedboxes having consistent physics.
People should be able to drive on any of them and have the same feel, unless the map author decides to make changes.
I know this is heading away from the main point, but super flags alter the core game play mechanics.
I'm proposing a tool that plug-in authors could use to make new game modes and new flags, the responsibility comes from the plug-in author and map maker not to make maps which are unfair or unbalanced.
The worst that can happen here is that someone creates super combo flags, but I think I've seen that happen with several custom flags.
(Snake shots, Triple barrel, Death blossom, Airstrike, Grenade...etc)
Making superflags do things other than what they were intended for (such as allowing tanks with Seer to fly) will likely not be the direction we are going.
Yeah, I guess messing with the official super flags is not a good idea, but leaving it where custom flags can do this can lead to enhanced and new game modes.
A good example is MoFo, when several flags were rejected as official they were implemented as custom flags. This just takes it to the next level.

I have a few concepts of where it could lead either enhanced or new game play.
1. Campers using L or GM, we just give the ability of CL or ST for 2 seconds to reduce spawn killing.
2. Giving newbies some enhanced features, like quick turn with each flag.
3. Map altering, "use the control point to get across the bridge"... if it isn't controlled, anyone who goes into that zone gets "OO" effect.
4. Almost per-player values are possible, team flag grants high speed being given while speed drops to burrow if holding the enemy flag.
5. Flag effects per team become possible, a map with only useless flags could be made to give every team a different effect.(No server mod required.)

Quick question, if someone implements this, will it be merged to the official source?

-Zehra
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There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
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Re: More powerful API

Post by JeffM » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:08 pm

Zehra wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:17 pm
Quick question, if someone implements this, will it be merged to the official source?
There is no way that this could be implemented in the current game protocol. As in there is NO way to do this and be compatible with existing clients. It would have to be in the next major version. So no, just implementing it is not enough,it has to go with something like 2.6 or 3.0.

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Re: More powerful API

Post by Zehra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:43 pm

There is no way that this could be implemented in the current game protocol. As in there is NO way to do this and be compatible with existing clients. It would have to be in the next major version. So no, just implementing it is not enough,it has to go with something like 2.6 or 3.0.
I probably should have better worded my question.
So if someone implements it for a future protocol [2.6], would it be accepted?
Since over time there has been patches made by people which have been turned down.(Multi-hit shields, rotating turrets...etc)

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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Re: More powerful API

Post by blast » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:22 pm

I don't recall patches for those.
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Re: More powerful API

Post by Zehra » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:19 am

My bad. I was wrong about that, but it turns out that some of those items were in the rejected ideas list.

From: ability to carry multiple flags at once to rotating tank turrets... those were a few rejected ideas.

I'm not sure if this idea is/will be rejected, since technically similar works have been done before without any issues and used the API.
Enigma wrote: So I started writing another plug-in. It changes the shot type based on a string that is passed to it. For instance, if you passed "WG&GM-CL&L" to the plug-in, WG would have GM shots, and CL would have L shots.

I will try to keep bzfs running with the plug-in loaded for today (June 15) if anyone wants to try it. There are no guarantees though. Right now WG has GM shots, CL has CS shots, ST has IB shots, A has F shots, V has F shots, OO has SW shots, LG has SB shots, ID has PZ shots, and BU has MG shots.
Enigma wrote:This is a simple plug-in I started last night. The plug-in changes the shot types for specific teams. I believe at one point there was a plug-in that assigned flags to teams, where one team would always get laser, another would get guided missile, and so on. In contrast, the TeamWeapons plug-in allows you to pick up a wings flag or a cloaking flag and still have the shot type assigned to a team.

It is not finished. I posted the source code if anyone want to mess around with it.
The quotes above provide an example of what can be done, but they have limitations.
Flag effects have to be done by picking up that flag and the extra ability is by setting a shot type.
I'm just hoping in a protocol break this can be done and several new flags and modes can be made with it, if possible.
(Edit: By controlling flag effects from the API.)

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
There's always something to remember and it's been a game I love. ~Zehra
The time spent is a time which can never be regained, so it's a time to enjoy. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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