"Local weather"

[The Purple Panzer]

This sort of is tied to the discussion of sun, moon, lighting, and shadow, but I didn't tack it on to that thread because it really goes in another direction, beyond issues of illumination.

Imagine local conditions which change strategy: for example, a fog bank (or quiet snow storm, or louder rainstorm) over part of the map, so that visibility drops - it would be almost as if everyone in that region had Cloaking. Similarly, one could imagine "Gee" (I think that was Churchill's codename) for foil chaff that made radar inoperable - so in the air one has some fluttering metallic particles, and radar (and GM tracking) is inoperable in that part of the map. Other local conditions could mimic or limit other flags: rocky ground might prevent the entrance of people with Burrow, hail might make GM useless, fog might also make Laser pointless (or snow might limit its range), etc. Some imagination here could probably produce a variety of weather conditions changing game play in different ways.

One problem with this is that it introduces a new complexity into the flag system, and I'm a little wary of anything that increases the learning curve for new players - I feel quite strongly that the game should be reasonably playable for novices, and should not expand based on the interests of veterans, for if we go that route we'll be on a path to eventual extinction. To implement this idea successfully it might be enough to make the natural environment's effect on flags, weapons, etc., to be intuitively natural and predictable. If I'm in a fog bank I don't expect to see other tanks, so I don't need to read about this in a help file somewhere. Maybe start with only the most obvious options.

This also might be completely independent of maps - a separate "weather" specification at the server might let various storms move across maps, so that the interactions between map structures and weather is as it is in the real world - serendipitous. As a tank driver you might have that same sense of novelty and amusement as you get in traffic during the first decent snowfall of the year, when people skid and slide and act completely strangely.

Just for technical hubris, the weather over a map might mimic the real weather in the server's area, grabbed from an internet web page, but that's probably wishful thinking. (Though somewhere around I have the code to get the visibility, temperature, etc. for any given location...)

[Workaphobia]

I can think of two variants: those that are specified in a map file and are specifically designed to affect certain elements of the structure, and those that are randomly generated (or pulled from some whether service based on server region). But in either case, the best use of this feature would be to vary the effectiveness of map features like camping spots. In tumultuous storm conditions, I can see hail toggling on and off from minute to minute, rendering otherwise-useful points strategically useless.

Of course the conditions would have to be carefully balanced - a dense fog would really suck if your prey had stealth.

As I said in the other thread, the major downside to this is that it gives hackers one more subtle cheat to exploit. I wouldn't worry too much about extending the learning curve - we just need to make sure that whatever is added can be discovered quickly but mastered only with practice. I don't think someone's going to give up on the game because we add occasional rainstorms. People (or at least I) like details, not the lack of game dimensions.

[The Purple Panzer]

Agreed, up to the point about cheaters: they shouldn't set the agenda. If it comes to that in practice, other solutions are available - requiring some sort of authentication via certificate at connect, with banning applying to that, for instance. I think it would be a mistake for the lowest (un)common denominator to set the game parameters.

[Lan]

I can think of a lot of weather situtations for BZFlag, and a lot of them are actually pretty easy to code. I suppose it hasn't been done (well, weather has been done in the older versions IIRC, but not done for the public) because either nobody has the interest/time/both, or it is low priority. I feel it is high priority since it would add a Midas touch to worlds, but this opinion varies. But I agree this is a worthwhile idea.

I also agree that cheaters don't set the agenda, that would just encourage it. I love having power over things, and making reasonable significant decisions with that power, and so does nearly everybody I have ever heard of, as well as cheaters, and having the devs remove features only because of cheaters just gives them this feeling of power. Besides, a lot of these ideas are pretty neat anyway

[nurdc0re]

Of course the conditions would have to be carefully balanced - a dense fog would really suck if your prey had stealth.

How about a super-foggy map, with tons of stealth flags and buildings everywhere.... that would be so scary and fun.

[toaster]

I like the idea of weather controlled within the map files.

I can envision world weapons: lightning strikes, rain/snow, even a random twister. "Oh no, Toto!"

And the fog bank: a ctf map of the Golden Gate bridge with a fog bank covering the middle and bases near each end.

[Workaphobia]

Wow, a twister and lightning strike would rule. I can see it now: "I've got GM and a camping spot above the wall on Two Castles, I'm on top of the wor- <KZZZAAP!>". Twisters would be a bit harder with the way the current movement system is set up, but it'd be awesome to use that as a dodge technique.

And I agree that we shouldn't base suggestions on whether or not cheaters would take advantage of it, I was just putting it out there.

[Lan]

or even downtown LA with the tops of the skyscrapers in fog (simulating smog), a good set of skyscrapers with careful attention, as well as this and any further features, could make a lot of new simulations of real places even better, just to add one more thing.

[Workaphobia]

Oh - I just realized - Fog is a great way to reduce the number of blocks rendered on the screen at any time. Cut the draw distance to like a quarter of what it is now, and have it gradually fade away into grayness. That's what MechWarrior 4 did on that factory level, which had the most buildings of any in the game.

Though I'm sure this is a common technique and I'm not the first to think of applying it to BZ.