auto-kick cheating teammate killers

Make suggestions for improving one of the best games on the net!
Post Reply
achanath
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:11 pm

auto-kick cheating teammate killers

Post by achanath » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:59 pm

I thought it could ben very fine to kick automaticaly people who have shot teammates, for instance 3 teammates in a short time range, excepting if he had a geno flag.

Why ? When a team had been winning good positions, and leading the game, and then suddenly a dummy player comes and kills a lot of teammates then takes off your team flag to the other base, it's a bit worrying cheating...


If then the server automatically bans the ip of the person, it would stop these fools.

User avatar
Winny
Grouchy
Grouchy
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Ottawa eh?
Contact:

Post by Winny » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 pm

-tkkr %

We ban teamkillers by ourself, never trust a computer to do something as important as banning... there could be extenuating circumstances..

achanath
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:11 pm

Post by achanath » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:45 pm

Thx for the answer, I didn't know that command ! (i have not found in man, nor in help, nor in wiki)...
(I will be happy for more infos, perhaps in an other thread ;)


... However to set these rules, could prevent of this type of cheating. But I agree with you, it could perhaps be some circumstances making teamkilling necessary (?) or just mistakes.

User avatar
Brave Sir Robin
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:08 am
Contact:

Post by Brave Sir Robin » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:36 pm

Personally, if I get kicked for teamkilling > x% (happened once so far), it's just mistakes - the guy getting in my way, being too close, forgetting what color I am, I just figure my bad and get back on. Banning for TK, I agree - bad idea to do it automatically.
“Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.”
-Oscar Wilde

Image Image Image Image

User avatar
too much loving
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 7:47 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by too much loving » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:21 am

5of0 wrote:Personally, if I get kicked for teamkilling > x% (happened once so far), it's just mistakes - the guy getting in my way, being too close, forgetting what color I am, I just figure my bad and get back on. Banning for TK, I agree - bad idea to do it automatically.
I would prefer banning the team killers IP for 5 minutes. This would be long enough to make team killing boring for most youngsters.

User avatar
Hannibal
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1073
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 10:27 pm
Contact:

Post by Hannibal » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:16 am

There are, however, sometimes in the game when, for the good of the team, a well-timed teamkill is acceptable. And now I shall give some of those times.
  • Your Teammate is about to be killed by a player on another team who has Geno.
    The Reverse of the situation given above. (You are about to be killed, teammate realizes, kills you.)
    A teammate has taken your team's flag (in CTF) off the base or wherever it was, and towards the opponent's base. Note: Only after repeated messages to the person to bring the flag back should a teamkill be preformed.
Now, those are not all of the times, but the ones that I find most common. Use with discretion.
Games don't make people violent, lag does.
ImageImage

benplaut
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:14 am

Post by benplaut » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:42 am

auto-tk-ban, no... vote for 15min ban, yes!!
maybe require a higher percentage of votes to pass, but it would help alot of tk situations. Nobody will wait 15 minutes to do it again :roll:

Enigma
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:13 am

Post by Enigma » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:13 pm

How about auto-banning a player if he or she is auto-kicked for team killing two consecutive times or N consecutive times. So if player1 is tk-auto-kicked by the server, rejoins, and is then the next player to be tk-auto-kicked, that player will be auto-banned (N=2). But if player2 is tk-auto-kicked before player1 is kicked the second time, no one will be banned.

If a player is kicked 3 or more consecutive times, I think it would be safe to assume he or she is just killing teammates. Right?

User avatar
khazhyk
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:40 pm
Location: Somewhere over there.
Contact:

Post by khazhyk » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:21 pm

What about those servers tht don't have a tk kick to save the poor accedental geno tkillers/shoot self-ers.
Image

User avatar
too much loving
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 7:47 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by too much loving » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:18 am

At some point it was suggested that the server should turn teamkillers into rogues. This feature would be helpful for newbies, who don't understand the concept of teams. If the rogue team is full the teamkillers be temporarily banned instead.

Alternatively the server could be able to mark an IP adress as "rogue only". Clients from a "rogue only" IP-adresses should only be able to join a game as rogues. Any team-killers should be temporarily be marked as rogue only.

Theme97
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:04 pm
Contact:

Post by Theme97 » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:19 pm

toomuchloving wrote:At some point it was suggested that the server should turn teamkillers into rogues.
Some servers (mostly CTF) don't allow Rogues.
Image

User avatar
TD-Linux
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 724
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA

Post by TD-Linux » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:02 pm

Maybe what would be better for detecting teamkills would be to watch for, say, 3 teamkills in a row, rather than a percentage. Very very rarely will a person accidentally teamkill many times in a row. If they are doing it accidentally, they still deserve to be banned :twisted:

User avatar
Hannibal
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1073
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 10:27 pm
Contact:

Post by Hannibal » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:33 pm

toomuchloving wrote:At some point it was suggested that the server should turn teamkillers into rogues. This feature would be helpful for newbies, who don't understand the concept of teams. If the rogue team is full the teamkillers be temporarily banned instead.

Alternatively the server could be able to mark an IP adress as "rogue only". Clients from a "rogue only" IP-adresses should only be able to join a game as rogues. Any team-killers should be temporarily be marked as rogue only.
That would only be a temporary fix for the problem. It would not educate the people who would be tking. Most tk-ers know perfectly well what they are doing. Teams are not exactly a unique thing to BZF.
Games don't make people violent, lag does.
ImageImage

User avatar
too much loving
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 7:47 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by too much loving » Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:52 am

TD-Linux wrote:Maybe what would be better for detecting teamkills would be to watch for, say, 3 teamkills in a row, rather than a percentage. Very very rarely will a person accidentally teamkill many times in a row. If they are doing it accidentally, they still deserve to be banned :twisted:
The three in a row rule looks like a good idea, but I don't think that it can stand alone. The server also has to auto-kick for teamkill percentage (Or teamkills per minute). The problem is that the teamkilling youngsters may adapt and start doing two kills in a row at a time. This way they can stay in the game and cause havoc without being auto-kicked.

How about adding some more information to the teamkill message? When I played my first game I did not understand which color my own team had. I may be slightly slower than the average, but it would have been helpful for me if the teamkill message had included something like the following

"You belong to the blue team. The other blue tanks are your teammates. Do not kill blue tanks, or we shall be forced to auto-kick-ban you."

I also like the idea of forcing the player to pause for a minute after a teamkill.

achanath
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:11 pm

thx to boxy war ...

Post by achanath » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:18 pm

... To have added the auto kick option :) I just saw less cheaters then,that's fine !

... Just sometimes flagrunners, but it's more easy to not let him his "job" :)

User avatar
A Meteorite
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1786
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:56 am
Location: California, U.S.
Contact:

Re: thx to boxy war ...

Post by A Meteorite » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:01 pm

achanath wrote:... To have added the auto kick option :) I just saw less cheaters then,that's fine !

... Just sometimes flagrunners, but it's more easy to not let him his "job" :)
Thanks. :) I run the "antiTeamKillKickRejoin" plugin based on antiLagkickRejoin by Theme97.

It seems to work well, even with a 30 minute ban. Problem teamkillers get much bigger bans by one of my admins.

I've been thinking to add a mod for flag runners (for those that actually cap their own flag, it would be too hard to figure anything else out based on a tank's position).
Image
Owner @ BZFX
Core Admin @ CAN

Email me: bzmet…@gmail.com

User avatar
too much loving
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 7:47 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: thx to boxy war ...

Post by too much loving » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:47 am

A Meteorite wrote: I've been thinking to add a mod for flag runners (for those that actually cap their own flag, it would be too hard to figure anything else out based on a tank's position).
You idea is interesting, but I am not sure if it will work in the long run. The problem is that it is too entertaining to look for a workaround, How far away can you carry you own flag without being banned? Can you chase an opponent so far that he gets banned... etc.

Would it make sense to change the rules so that a tank cannot pick up his own flag when the flag is placed on his base? That would make it difficult for flagrunners to steal their own flag. I think that this rule could save a lot of problems on many maps, (but it may spoil the fun on ducati servers). It
would probably require a change in the client.

User avatar
A Meteorite
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 1786
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:56 am
Location: California, U.S.
Contact:

Re: thx to boxy war ...

Post by A Meteorite » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:06 am

toomuchloving wrote:You idea is interesting, but I am not sure if it will work in the long run. The problem is that it is too entertaining to look for a workaround, How far away can you carry you own flag without being banned? Can you chase an opponent so far that he gets banned... etc.
I meant for those that actually capture their own flag. To find out who is a flag carrier and who isn't strictly by their tank position is not the way to go.
toomuchloving wrote:Would it make sense to change the rules so that a tank cannot pick up his own flag when the flag is placed on his base?
That'd be interesting... very possible via a plugin that checks people's flags and their position. But it would be very annoying not being able to position the flag where it is safest. :shock:
Image
Owner @ BZFX
Core Admin @ CAN

Email me: bzmet…@gmail.com

meeba
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:49 pm
Location: N. Sanity Beach
Contact:

Post by meeba » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:12 am

Oh yeah, the other problem with a flag runner thing is... what if someone's picking up their own flag near an enemy base and trying to jump over the enemy base to send the flag home... they would surely be kicked.

User avatar
Sky King
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA

Re: thx to boxy war ...

Post by Sky King » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:55 pm

A Meteorite wrote:Thanks. :) I run the "antiTeamKillKickRejoin" plugin based on antiLagkickRejoin by Theme97.

It seems to work well, even with a 30 minute ban. Problem teamkillers get much bigger bans by one of my admins.
As an admin on Boxy/BZFX, I can tell you it works AMAZINGLY well... when you first join, it kicks you after 3 TKs, and thereafter, any time your TK ratio gets too high... and it has to be a lot, an occasional TK will not trip the plugin.

You get a couple of these kicks, and if you trigger it again, you get a 30 minute ban. And as always, polls and admins are still there to do the heavy work when things get bad. The interesting coding is the server's ability to remember previous kicks.

BZFX servers run Theme's automatic filters (that warn, then kick, and finally ban) for lag and for teamkilling. Met also runs a pretty strict cuss filter that notifies the admin of what you really said but got masked (&^%$) out. I don't like the way the fairCTF plugin works, but with a reworked plugin, BZFX servers would have just about the perfect environment.
Retired Army--Proud to have served
Armored Cavalry Crewman, 1981-1984 (M60A5)
Infantry Officer & Paratrooper, 1984-1986
US Army Ranger & Sniper, 1986-1989 (LRSD)

8-core Intel i7 920, ATI 4850 GPU

User avatar
Sky King
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA

Post by Sky King » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:33 pm

I have thought a LOT about the TK problem and had proposed some longer term solutions months ago... some people liked them some people didn't.

I think there needs to be a more "holistic" approach to TK that takes into consideration the three causes of TK and addresses each of them by providing what is needed:

1. Intentional TKs - need to be banned, period
2. Newbies - need coaching, not abuse, kicks, and bans
3. Accidents - just need a little shame and ridicule :wink:

What we have at our disposal are several tools of increasing severity:
-Warning
-Shame (public)
-Handicap (like a delay in re-spawning)
-Kill
-Kick
-Short Ban
-Long Ban

The trick is to use the lightest consequences for newbies and accidents, and the heavier consequences for patterns that are more obviously intentional.

What I had proposed before is:

1. On first TK, you get the "assumed newbie" treatment... A screen warning, and better yet, a required action. For instance, right across the middle of the HUD it says: "You just killed a teammate (a tank of your same color); This is called 'Team Killing' or TKing and this is forbidden in BZFlag. If you understand and wish to continue playing, press 1; otherwise, for help on teams and rules, press any other key". (Obviously this is a client mod, would have to be future version).

2. On the all subsequent TKs, you get the usual: that is, you get killed and the "don't kill teammates", BUT... Your re-spawn is delayed by 10 seconds the second time, and 20-30 seconds each time thereafter.

The delay takes the luster out of going on an angry TK-rampage, as it will take you forever to really do any meaningful damage; yet a short delay is not harsh punishment, just an inconvenience for the accidental TKer.

I also think shame and pride can be used... I like to point out on the public channel those players that have done better than 40:1 (enemy kills to TK ratio). The client should highlight in bold the scoreboard entries for those players of anyone whose TK ration is worse than, say 10:1.

One last thing... it makes no sense to yell at a new player by saying "Stop TKing you idiot"... They don't have any idea what TK means, and may not even know yet there are teams. As an admin, I always start with "This is a team game, and you cannot shoot your teamates in this game. You are on the red team this time, so do not shoot red tanks, shoot only blue tanks". that almost always clears it up in one transimission.
Retired Army--Proud to have served
Armored Cavalry Crewman, 1981-1984 (M60A5)
Infantry Officer & Paratrooper, 1984-1986
US Army Ranger & Sniper, 1986-1989 (LRSD)

8-core Intel i7 920, ATI 4850 GPU

User avatar
iceomega999
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: Extraterestrial outer universal deserted planetarium in Mississippi.
Contact:

no

Post by iceomega999 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:43 pm

TD-Linux wrote:Maybe what would be better for detecting teamkills would be to watch for, say, 3 teamkills in a row, rather than a percentage. Very very rarely will a person accidentally teamkill many times in a row. If they are doing it accidentally, they still deserve to be banned :twisted:
i don't think you should ban them if was an accident.once i tried to kill a rogue,and one of my teamates jumped in front and i accidentally killed him..

Post Reply