While we are at it: Teleport Flag

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Teleport Flag is a good idea

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No
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Better would be... (please post)
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Skeeve
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While we are at it: Teleport Flag

Post by Skeeve » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:36 pm

Hi!

I already discussed this some time ago with Jeff in IRC. He didn't seem too reluctant to the idea.

Now I ask you how you like it and how it should work. My first idea was this:
  1. You get the flag.
  2. If you "lock" on someone you set you "home position"
    1. where you are now
    2. or where he is
  3. The home position is shown (somehow) so others know where it is (to wait for you to shoot you)
  4. If you jump the next time, you fly up to the highest point, disappear and reappear at the "home position"
  5. the flag automatically drops after that
Another option instead of setting the "home position" could be dropping the flag. This means you have to drop it 2 times to really drop it.

What do you think?
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Post by JeffM » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:53 pm

what? that has to be the most complex flag system I've heard of.

base rule of the game.. SIMPLE.

there will not be any flags that have on drop actions ( per Tim ). It's also not a good idea to require another feature ( like jumping ) as part of your base mechanic.
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Post by Skeeve » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:26 pm

JeffM2501 wrote:what? that has to be the most complex flag system I've heard of.
But we talked about it.
JeffM2501 wrote:there will not be any flags that have on drop actions ( per Tim ).
Okay... Who am I to argue with Mr. Riker himself. There's still the idea to use looking/locking for this.
JeffM2501 wrote:It's also not a good idea to require another feature ( like jumping ) as part of your base mechanic.
So what about Wings? If you want to fly you have to jump. I see no difference here.

It's used like GM & Wings: Locking/looking will set the target point. Jumping will take you there.
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Post by JeffM » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:37 pm

I do not recall discussing that exact flag. You may have talked about it, but that dosn't mean I listened or agreed, or was even there.

it sounds like the teleporter from Subspace. A feature I like in subspace, and maybe some other future game that is not bzflag, but it has no place in bzflag.

Wings is one of the flags that is most usefull with jumping on, yes. It is also one of the least thought out flags, and the flag with the most problems and complaints. Techincaly you could use wings when you fall, so it has limited use on non jump servers.

Yours REQUIRES jump to even do anything. It's also just WAY too complex to use. It requires far to many steps, that we don't have a good way to train people to use. Flags are ether always on, or affect a shot, we do not have any that have requirements for activation. GM's lockon is an aditional advantage of it, but it still modifies shots. PZ may be the only exception, as it only works when teleported, and it is one of the stupidest flags in my opionion.
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Post by Skeeve » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:01 pm

JeffM2501 wrote:I do not recall discussing that exact flag. You may have talked about it, but that dosn't mean I listened or agreed, or was even there.
;-) You listened and you talked:
Skeeve wrote:A teleport flag
JeffM2501 wrote:that does what?
Skeeve wrote:If you Right click (look at someone) you automatically set your home position
Skeeve wrote:If you later jump, you get teleported back
Skeeve wrote:That works just once
JeffM2501 wrote:I'd do that as a one shot too
JeffM2501 wrote:not a flag
JeffM2501 wrote:your overriding too many default behavors
Skeeve wrote:What does that mean? One Shot?
JeffM2501 wrote:like a temporary power up
JeffM2501 wrote:tied to another key
JeffM2501 wrote:you can have one, when you fire it, you use it up
Skeeve wrote:Right clicking with GM is also changing the default behaviour.
JeffM2501 wrote:not it's actualy 2 behavors tied to the same key :)
JeffM2501 wrote:the jump is the big thing
Skeeve wrote:So that can be used for the teleport too
purple_cow wrote:i don't see any need for new flags
JeffM2501 wrote:basicly your preventing peopel from jumping
Skeeve wrote:There is never a *need* for any new flag
JeffM2501 wrote:so on a no jump server there is no penalty for the flag
JeffM2501 wrote:I think there are too many flags
purple_cow wrote:there's a huge variety of gameplay there already that isn't being taken advantage of because noone is creative with their configuration
Skeeve wrote:Yes, jeff. They can't jump, because they teleport then
JeffM2501 wrote:and on a non jump server?
Skeeve wrote:And yes: No penalty on no-jump servers
JeffM2501 wrote:it's less munchkiny then the other one, but still sounds rather complex
Skeeve wrote:but it's the same with the jumping flag on no-jump servers
Skeeve wrote:You can jump while others can't
Skeeve wrote:And where is the penalty in that?
JeffM2501 wrote:yeah but that takes up your flag slot ;)
Skeeve wrote:So does it when it's a flag
JeffM2501 wrote:like I say it's better then the other one
Skeeve wrote:like I proposed
JeffM2501 wrote:it's just a little hard to explain
Skeeve wrote:GM is hard to explain too
JeffM2501 wrote:somewhat
JeffM2501 wrote:tho eveyrone understands missiles
JeffM2501 wrote::)
Skeeve wrote:At least if I think of all the newbies I saw the last fewdays
JeffM2501 wrote:with your flag, I'd want the tank to drop a marker that is visible
JeffM2501 wrote:if another tank runs over it, you die when you port back
Skeeve wrote:So that people can wait there for you to appear
JeffM2501 wrote:yeah it's a risk
Skeeve wrote:Good idea
JeffM2501 wrote:cus basicly your describing the porters from UT and subspace
Skeeve wrote:I know neither of those
JeffM2501 wrote:well they work similar to what you described :)
JeffM2501 wrote:often used for geting back to CTF bases fast
Skeeve wrote:If I only knew more about bzflag, I'd try to make a patch for it
JeffM2501 wrote:so good plan before a cap is to blast a redemer over the base to kill any transponders
But to cut it short: If no one implements it, (I can't) there is no risk of seeing this flag. So we can forget about it...
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Post by JeffM » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:28 pm

dude, I was talking about open combat and UT there, not bzflag.

and as you'll see, there I said it was also "overly complex" and "your overriding too many default behavors", those would be me being reluctant to the idea in bzflag. The rest is me talking about the feature in other games.
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Post by Skeeve » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:29 pm

Sorry for misunderstanding you
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Post by the_j0k3r » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:38 pm

what about a simple teleport flag, that shoots like thief, and when you hit someone you swap positions with them. could be very useful for quick entry into an opponents base, or to get you out of trouble.
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Post by GMMan » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:32 pm

It does sound complicated... Anyways, I would concider that more like cheating: going out, going back in. It might be better to randomly be placed at spawn spots. Anyways, the server or client or whatever doesn't know sometimes if you're going to jump to somewhere, not escape.
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Post by ducktape » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:57 pm

Wel... i think it sounds kool but I dont know if it can be done or not.
/me is not that smart
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Post by dartman » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:22 am

the_j0k3r wrote:what about a simple teleport flag, that shoots like thief, and when you hit someone you swap positions with them. could be very useful for quick entry into an opponents base, or to get you out of trouble.
No, that actually sounds like it would just be annoying for everyone else. Just imagine: your driving along, when you suddenly swap positions with someone else. Not fun.

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Post by A Vicious Muffin » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:39 am

I'll say. Especially when a teammate would try and do that. I hate when they steal my flag, switching places with them? Not going to happen.
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