Observer team talk

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Observer team talk

Post by A Hobo » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:17 pm

What if theres a way for observers to team talk, not to the observer team, but to a playing team. Instead of just talking to one person on the team. It might be useful for teams in leagues like GU, Ducti, and IN.

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Post by Skeeve » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:16 am

What if they use a teamtalk server?
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Post by joevano » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:18 am

Great idea! Then they can be privy to what the other team is saying and report it to their friends. Why didn't I think of that! :sarcasm:

Sorry A Hobo, there are several previous posts on this same question, I just couldn't help it. :p

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Post by ducktape » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:55 am

its like perfect for a Cheater dont u think :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :P
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Post by Sky King » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:12 am

I'd propose just the opposite of what you're proposing: I'm not so sure that on most maps, observers shouldn't be muted, or, only be able to use the public channel with no private messaging at all.

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Post by joevano » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:17 pm

Sky King wrote:I'd propose just the opposite of what you're proposing: I'm not so sure that on most maps, observers shouldn't be muted, or, only be able to use the public channel with no private messaging at all.
Depending on what is going on, I would agree with you 100%. Match play is a great example of where observers should be muted from all private chat. I don't see people using observer to tip people off or regular FFA, CTF, of Rabbit games. I read the logs on louman and norang and can't say that I have ever seen it happen, but the opportunity is there. So on that I lean towards your point, but am not totally convinced it is necessary.

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Post by A Hobo » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:48 pm

But when playing in the GU, ducti or other leagues, everyone is able to see what the teams are doing because of the rader. if the obs were able to talk to the playing team they are on, they could give advice or support.

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Post by The Red Baron » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:46 pm

donny_baker wrote:Great idea! Then they can be privy to what the other team is saying and report it to their friends. Why didn't I think of that! :sarcasm:

Sorry A Hobo, there are several previous posts on this same question, I just couldn't help it. :p
no no, Re-read what he's wrote.

He's asking if there is a way, for an observer, to send a message to a team color. Not the team being able message the observer channel.

Yes, this could have the potential of being a nice feature. but there are other programs that allow this, in real time. Aka Teamspeak. (or teemspeek for mac users). IT may be practical for the observ to take the time to type up, but dont' expect replies back from the team. The team playing doesn't have the time to type back a full reply.

A Hobo: In reply, Yes, your idea has merit, but with programs like teamspeak etc, I don't think it will be implemented.
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Post by Skeeve » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:38 pm

The Red Baron wrote:Aka Teamspeak. (or teemspeek for mac users)
TeamSpeex for Mac
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Post by L4m3r » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:43 pm

This could be done with a plugin, easily. So, if you've got a special idea or server that can use this, just code it up.
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Post by meeba » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:54 pm

I'm all for observers talking, but their talking should be either public or only to other observers. No team talk to a playing team, nor is there private messaging to the people playing.

On my server, I don't needs obs tipping off the players.

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Post by A Hobo » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:55 am

I'm no computer wiz or anything, a plugin would be neat.

Thanks for the links Skeeve, they come in handy. But would they create some type of lag while playing bzf? and would the people you are talking to need the same type of teamspeak server thing?

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Post by The Red Baron » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:35 am

A Hobo wrote:I'm no computer wiz or anything, a plugin would be neat.

Thanks for the links Skeeve, they come in handy. But would they create some type of lag while playing bzf? and would the people you are talking to need the same type of teamspeak server thing?
yes, both parties need teamspeak. search teamspeak on the forums, there is a public Bzflag Teamspeak Server.

and No, it doesn't add "lag" its uses a fairly insignificant amound of bandwidth. I use it, and don't notice an increase in lag at all.
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Post by Zelgadis » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:04 am

hmm, maybe a 2nd Team button, but i dont think thats very nice.

With this system you can not only help the players, you can also disturb.....
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Post by BinarySpike » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:47 am

The "public" bzflag teamspeak server is hosted by A Metoerite I believe...

and No, it doesn't add "lag" its uses a fairly insignificant amound of bandwidth. I use it, and don't notice an increase in lag at all.
The Red Baron: This uses a lot of bandwidth, but over a long period of time, also depends on the codec... And there is a CPU and internet lag, compressing vocal-audio is very time taking... I would say it runs at about 5Kbps though (5 kilobits a second) over the internet.



Skeeve: Btw, for future reference, I talked to the TeamSpeex dev, and he said that TeamSpeex will soon support 10.2, if you have any bugs to report just e-mail him, he's a nice guy :)

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Post by Skeeve » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:59 am

BinarySpike wrote:Skeeve: Btw, for future reference, I talked to the TeamSpeex dev, and he said that TeamSpeex will soon support 10.2, if you have any bugs to report just e-mail him, he's a nice guy :)
I haven't installed it and I don't have anyone to talk to ;-) I'm a "lonely wolf (no... sheep) when playing bzflag.

Also I'd have difficulties in using it. All my 2 USB ports are used when playing (Keyboard + GamePad). So no port free for plugging in a USB headset.
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Post by CannonBallGuy » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:09 pm

You need a hub ;)
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Post by A Meteorite » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:19 pm

BinarySpike wrote:The "public" bzflag teamspeak server is hosted by A Metoerite I believe...
It's been down since the server move, I'll work on getting it back up. The reason I let it slide is because I didn't think anyone used it.
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Post by Sky King » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:37 am

TangenT wrote:I'm all for observers talking, but their talking should be either public or only to other observers. No team talk to a playing team, nor is there private messaging to the people playing.

On my server, I don't needs obs tipping off the players.
I agree, and this is where my objection came from. On MANY (not all) servers, the observer being able to talk to one team or the other invites cheating. For instance, on any map that provides STs, observers provide a huge advantage.

I agree with Tangent, that admin observers should be able to talk to individuals from either team (as it is now) but that non-admin observers should only have access to three channels:
  • Public (N)
  • Fellow Observers (M)
  • Admins (Z)
And not have access to other team channels, nor have access to individuals(.).

The notion of having reconnaissance assets, like aerial observation and satellites, is kind of a neat thing... As has been suggested, on some servers, with the public knowledge of all parties, it might be neat to have a teammate that has the overhead view and direct the gameplan, free of the rigors of defending oneself.

But, I suggest we agree, as a community, that unless expressly made part of the game, that ANY use of observers for tactical assistance, either by:
  • Built-in BZ messaging;
  • Other chat platform (IRC, yahoo, etc.)
  • TeamSpeak, telephone, or other voice channel
is expressly prohibited and is outright cheating, period--no gray area, no interpretation--it's cheating.
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Post by A Hobo » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:03 am

Sorry, i should have been more specific. I ment for the idea to be on league maps, buts thats for the map creators and league adims to decide. :wink:

And ya the idea would be really cheap for maps with St and such...

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Post by The Red Baron » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:37 pm

Sky King wrote:
But, I suggest we agree, as a community, that unless expressly made part of the game, that ANY use of observers for tactical assistance, either by:
  • Built-in BZ messaging;
  • Other chat platform (IRC, yahoo, etc.)
  • TeamSpeak, telephone, or other voice channel
is expressly prohibited and is outright cheating, period--no gray area, no interpretation--it's cheating.
Good luck with that one mate. It will never happen.

Because 1. Its already being done, and is used in the leagues. So, if you try to establish a ban on this, I guarantee you, the league players are going to descend on this, and loudly oppose it. and they are a rather huge part of the bz-community, and the regular bz community. Players who will stick around for a very long time.

Secondly, what about those who play in the same room??
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Re: Observer team talk

Post by ducatiwannabe » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:15 am

A Hobo wrote:What if theres a way for observers to team talk, not to the observer team, but to a playing team. Instead of just talking to one person on the team. It might be useful for teams in leagues like GU, Ducti, and IN.
In what way would it be helpful? It could be annoying of a spammer uses it...

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Re: Observer team talk

Post by Sky King » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:01 am

ducatiwannabe wrote:
A Hobo wrote:What if theres a way for observers to team talk, not to the observer team, but to a playing team. Instead of just talking to one person on the team. It might be useful for teams in leagues like GU, Ducti, and IN.
In what way would it be helpful? It could be annoying of a spammer uses it...
They already can... in most maps, observers can talk to everyone, on the public channel, or to individuals, on a private channel... they just can't do public one team at a time. So the potential for spam is, in essence, no change from the present.
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Post by Sky King » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:06 am

The Red Baron wrote:
Sky King wrote:
But, I suggest we agree, as a community, that unless expressly made part of the game, that ANY use of observers for tactical assistance...
Good luck with that one mate. It will never happen.

Because 1. Its already being done, and is used in the leagues. So, if you try to establish a ban on this, I guarantee you, the league players are going to descend on this, and loudly oppose it. and they are a rather huge part of the bz-community, and the regular bz community. Players who will stick around for a very long time.

Secondly, what about those who play in the same room??
It still stands... If you are in a league that expressly allows a person who is a non-playing observer to assist a team by doing things like calling out the positions of STs, then great... party on. As I mentioned, if done fairly, it could add an interesting dimension to the game.

But if not, and you are secretly getting ST hunting assistance from an observer through any means, even if the observer is in the same room as you... you are cheating, not one bit less than a person with a hacked client is cheating.
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Post by The Red Baron » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:25 pm

Sky King wrote:
The Red Baron wrote:
Sky King wrote:
But, I suggest we agree, as a community, that unless expressly made part of the game, that ANY use of observers for tactical assistance...
Good luck with that one mate. It will never happen.

Because 1. Its already being done, and is used in the leagues. So, if you try to establish a ban on this, I guarantee you, the league players are going to descend on this, and loudly oppose it. and they are a rather huge part of the bz-community, and the regular bz community. Players who will stick around for a very long time.

Secondly, what about those who play in the same room??
It still stands... If you are in a league that expressly allows a person who is a non-playing observer to assist a team by doing things like calling out the positions of STs, then great... party on. As I mentioned, if done fairly, it could add an interesting dimension to the game.

But if not, and you are secretly getting ST hunting assistance from an observer through any means, even if the observer is in the same room as you... you are cheating, not one bit less than a person with a hacked client is cheating.
or so you say :)
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