Wind of God tactics

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asciimonster
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Wind of God tactics

Post by asciimonster »

All tanks have a self-destruct mechanism, but people never use it. Unless they get stuck somewhere.

I would like to use the self destruct for tactical purposes. [N.B. This should be an opt-in system for servers.] Currently, the self destruct is more like a pop. I want to make it a boom:
- Either it's a shockwave with double the range, or
- It's the same range as SW, but the wave goes faster and cannot run from it.
That way it can be used for kamikaze (translation: wind-of-god) tactics.

But when you choose this tactic, it should be absolutely risky and done with full commitment:
- The people you kill should not be counted in your stats, when you do this you have one certainty: your score gets -1 life.
- No cancelling. When you get it wrong, you will get flamed by teammates.
- Longer destruct times, like 10, 15 or 30 seconds so that going kamikaze is really risky since the situation will have changed since then. This will give the opposing teams a better chance of killing you and eliminating the threat.
- Once engaged, you cannot shoot anymore. Again to allow the opposing team a chance to react and more risk for the initiator.

Some other things to think about:
- And audible or visible alarm/warning when somebody uses this tactic.
- To prevent abuse, you cannot this when you respawned less than x min ago (preferably x=1 min). Also the option is disabled when used more than 3 times a session.
- If you do not want to enabled every time, you could introduce a new flag.

Personally I think this a much better system than geno would be. Geno has too little drawbacks (read: none!) for the geno-user and too much drawbacks for the people hit by geno.

[Edit: I'm aware of the fact that kamikaze is distinctly associated with WWII. You could also call this option "nuke", but this is an even worse historal reference. Suggestions are welcome]
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Post by meeba »

not a bad idea at all. not great on many servers, but would be very useful on some.

A plugin MIGHT be able to do it... correct me if I'm wrong.
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A Vicious Muffin
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Post by A Vicious Muffin »

I hate this idea. Not you! :D It's just my opinion. This game is slightly like reality, and some not. I believe that this game should be a game in which impossible is possible and reality is (sorta) out the window. Jumping for instance, is not a option for tank drivers in the midst of war. Guided missles? Laser beams? Cloaking? This enhancement reminds me too much of suicide bombers in....you pick the place. Plus I think it's kinda stupid too. You go all the way to a person's base and set off self destruct. You "kill" them, and yourself but you lose one point for it. Of course, giving points would be bad too since it would be like a geno.
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Post by too much loving »

It is worth a try, but I don't think that it will work. The problem is that the rule encourages players to be annoying.

Some players will be tempted to jump towards the nearest tank and explode as fast as possible. Of course there is a drawback of losing score and being flamed by teammates, but some players do not care about that.
You can avoid a limit of 3 suicides in a session by rejoining the game, but I agree that the time limit may help.

BTW: Does the protocol allow the server to create a small SW at will or does that require a change in the client code? In other words, is it possible to create a server in which all players die with an SW?

Niels

[Edit I rewrote the post a bit]
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A Meteorite
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Post by A Meteorite »

I don't know. I have pretty mixed feelings for this one. In some maps it could be particularly advantageous, and in others it could be the worst feature ever.
toomuchloving wrote:BTW: Does the protocol allow the server to create a small SW at will or does that require a change in the client code? In other words, is it possible to create a server in which all players die with a large SW?
No. World weapons are only supported via the world file. AFAIK, there is no packet from the server that says "fire this world weapon here."

EDIT: Yes, you can. Scratch that. (Note to self: Don't try to understand things when you're tired and don't ever search the API documentation when you're tired. And look at other plugins.)
Last edited by A Meteorite on Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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L4m3r
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Post by L4m3r »

A Meteorite wrote:No. World weapons are only supported via the world file. AFAIK, there is no packet from the server that says "fire this world weapon here."
Uh, yes there is. it's just like any other shot, except it comes from ServerPlayer. map-based world weapons are not actually controlled in by the map itself; the server fires them as per the map file's specifications. this keeps the weapons synchronized on all clients.

There is an API function to fire a world weapon. Without it, plugins like shockwavedeath would not be possible. ;)
Optimism is just a milder alternative to denial.
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A Meteorite
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Post by A Meteorite »

L4m3r wrote:
A Meteorite wrote:No. World weapons are only supported via the world file. AFAIK, there is no packet from the server that says "fire this world weapon here."
Uh, yes there is. it's just like any other shot, except it comes from ServerPlayer. map-based world weapons are not actually controlled in by the map itself; the server fires them as per the map file's specifications. this keeps the weapons synchronized on all clients.

There is an API function to fire a world weapon. Without it, plugins like shockwavedeath would not be possible. ;)
Oh, yes, you are right... D'oh! If only the API documentation was up-to-date (or if I stopped and looked at shockwavedeath). :)

EDIT: Never mind, API documentation is correct but I was searching for the wrong search string in hopes of finding it. Man, I'm such an idiot... :)
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I've seen this somewhere

Post by hlfmnhlfamazing »

I don't know if it was a plugin, or a hack, but I've seen a map wher when your tank blew up it sent out a shockwave.

I remember it, and I think it was a mofo map because of how usually mofo maps have the "rampaging" then "killing spree" then "unstoppable" theme going on when you have multiple kills.

I was rampaging at the time, and kicking the crap out of some player, and self destructed in order to kill the other player because they had picked up a wing.

Don't ask me to remember names and dates, but this is already possible.
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Post by Spazzy McGee »

Yes, that is the shockwave on death plugin. Planet MoFo did use it for a short period a while back.
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Zelgadis
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Post by Zelgadis »

i dont like this idea, sry :(
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Post by whispershadow »

the idea sound like it might work, but it should be a flag, not a function. It DEFINITLY should not be a generic part of the game.
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QuantumTim
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Mixed Feelings

Post by QuantumTim »

Clearly this wouldn't be good on a FFA map, as there's no advantage to getting -1 just to kill people, but maybe if you got (kills - 1) added to your score. Note the long time delay and warning sirens (which you'd have to have otherwise it's impossible to anticipate and even just get out of the way) would probably be a fairly good counter to this, but you'd have to disallow deactivating it (otherwise people would just start the timer, make all their foes run away, and then deactivate). But then you have a tank that WILL BLOW UP IN X SECONDS, so if everyone just runs, you can probably only kill a max of 1 tank if they all move away in different directions, and you hence end up with no change to score :? In fact, if it were possible to get more than 0 with this, then everyone would always use it, and it would be whomever set it off first who got the points - not really any skill involved there!!!

On say a CTF map, I guess it could be used to help your team by clearing an area (all foes either run away or die), but it would also mean all your team (and yourself) would have to clear out, so whilst I'm sure it might be effective in some cases, if the other team lived and your team died (which they can achieve by staying sufficiently close to your team that you kill both or neither) you are no better off :evil:.

Not to mention that it would add a whole new aspect to the game on a scale far greater than just having a new flag for people to use, so I'm not particularly keen on the idea.

Tim
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Post by Albino Blacksheep »

It is a fairly good idea, not saying I dont like it, but Im not totaly thrilled about it. It would take some time to get right (not saying I know everything about BZ-Flag and its programing) but it could be scalled down on the not so important things (ex. longer destruct time and no cancelling). just a suggesting.
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