The low ethics of people who shouldn't be server admins...

Place for people to discuss public servers, and also for admins to lay out the details of their servers
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sussudio
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The low ethics of people who shouldn't be server admins...

Post by sussudio » Sat May 29, 2004 9:17 am

How come that when have the #1 score in a bzflag, people will find *any* excuse to ban you?

Why are these people chosen to be server admins in the first place? Are the server owners that complacent?

It's rather sickening when envious little people who can't accomplish anything in real life and have no grasp of ethics get some "power", even if it's very limited power.

I've seen it happen with BZCops (Hello, Spiff!) and it's happening all over again...

The servers i'm talking about are bzflag.grassrootsportals.com (more than 1 ethically challenged admin) and valentino.hepcat.org (a bunch of admins who seem to enjoy kicking people whenever they reach #1).

It seems it's not the cheaters these days who are ruining the game, but the people who should impartially administer server, but let things like envy and petty grudges get the better of them.

I don't see much of a future for servers that are run this way.

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 29, 2004 12:54 pm

becouse most of the admins that are made let it go to their head and mess with parms to cheat so they can win, your abbsolutely right. we should have like a testing thing before you make em admin.

trepan
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Post by trepan » Sat May 29, 2004 1:05 pm

Break out the Rorschach's...

Or were you inferring that you
test people to make sure that
they are so good at playing that
they'll end up on the top anyways,
thus avoiding the envy issue?

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Well

Post by SkyMoCo » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:20 am

I get about two email a week accusing people of cheating
and what not. I tend to login an watch for a while, maybe
play against them. Easy enough to see a cheat.

-Kevin
admin of boo2.smolkowski.com

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Workaphobia
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Post by Workaphobia » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:23 pm

I play on grassroots and (very frequently) hepcat. I haven't seen any admin abuses there. Then again, I never really run into the admins, or if I do I don't strike up much of a conversation with them. And of course, I'm rarely number one in score.

The only admin problems I've witnessed first-hand in my short bzflag experience have been related to slow reaction time in banning cheaters/trolls.

Anyway, if you want to fight back against admin abuse, the only thing you can really do is let other people know about what happened, and in what way the acted unjustly. Commentary - perhaps in severe cases even boycotting - may get the message across to the server owner that something needs to be done.
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Post by Grumbler » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:49 pm

I have not seen that much abuse. of course, i do see a lot of people complaining of cheats, that are not cheats just very poor lag, or packet drops. both of these issues are variable and hard to quantify. on rare instances, i have seen blatant cheats......and the admins have all reacted very quickly.

there is a larger majority of people who do not have the ability to identify such conditions and begin to yell cheat. I find these people far more annoying. personally, i do give a shout if someone's lag/packet drop is a little excessive just to bring it to their attention. Few people realize that running mail/IM/IRC clients in the background on a poor connection can cause some nasty lag/jumpiness to their client......but the ping rates are still acceptable.

but since the days of perfect cell and the old spoogebob, i have not seen that many cheat clients......just poor connections and poor sports.

hopefully, as bzflag continues to improve, network issues will become less an issue, and maybe some of the true cheaters out there will be easier to identify...........

for now, i would recommend that instead of being critical of admins or of players, just leave the server. hang out another server for awhile and play there.

just a suggestion, you are welcome to think differently.
.........you kids, get out of my tank...........

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Post by rr » Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:05 am

I have seen some very possible admin abuses on one of the more popular servers out there right now, the name of which I will not disclose. As far as I am concerned there should be nothing about admin rights that gives them an advantage over other players (i.e. Why should the admin be able to determine the location of flags? What use does that possibly have during the course of a game?). The admin rights should be limited to kicking/banning and flag resets (which shouldn't even be necessary in my mind, there should be an automatic feature of redistributing a few flags every now and then so that resets aren't necessary. For example, if a flag hasn't been touched in awhile it could move itself, or if a flag drops in a location with a high concentration of flags, it should reset elsewhere no matter what).

More advanced features could be availible, but should be limited strictly to observer mode.

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Post by toaster » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:00 am

I've seen some admin abuses on a few servers, not too many. Usually, flag resets are admin-type abuses, besides banning people for disagreeing with them. Having been the subject of one such event a few months back, I can speak from direct experience.

Most admins are okay. I stop going to maps where admins abuse me. There are now two servers I avoid entirely, and I have about 30 userids permanently silenced in my config file. Easier that way. Don't have to deal with or listen to the attitudes any longer. Anytime someone aggravates me sufficiently, I add them to the list. Especially the ones who call me cheat because I killed them too many times. :roll:
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Post by julesthejackal » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:57 am

So true that a few bad admins can ruin a really good server, remember turkey.moongroup anyone?
Its so hard to find good admins out there, most people who ask me if they could admin at my server are usually power hungry teenagers with god complexes. Having seen so many bad admins out there gave me the idea to set up my own server. I hardly play at other servers now and enjoy playing this game alot more at my own server. I hope admins who read this should think TWICE about banning and kicking people off the server. Lag issues are a main concern.....do a /lagstat do make sure the player isn't lagging cause it might appear then the the player is cheating when he/she is not

Just a little tidbit for ya all
:wink:

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Post by SGI » Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:01 pm

Dear Toaster, normally before to use flag reset (unused) I'm going to ask to everyone.........and just when the flags are in one spot/side.
But remember is hard to find a good admin or admin in a server.
And there is a lot good servers out there, try to find a good one and you'll see if the admins are bad.

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Post by Dervish » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:47 am

Hello all, it's been a while. :) I still play BZFlag, but haven't participated in the community for a while.

Any ways, I agree with 'sussudio' because I just witnessed this.

1:20am PST on Babel's "Low-lag" CTF server, with the admin "Colonel". He seemed to take delight in banning me when playing under the alias "cipher_nemo".

Colonel is abusing his admin priv. I was the highest scorer in the game when Colonel came in. After playing him for a while, he kept complaining about other player's lag. Of course I don't lag, and he never accused me of this, he still said "hmmm" whenever I destroyed his tank.

So I mentioned, "Colonel whines too much".

Then starts his rampage in messaging me several times about how he's the admin and he can ban me because I'm giving him "sh*t". He keeps on messaging me with things like, "do you want me to ban you?", and "all you've been doing is talking smack".

So, after I ask him why he's on my case and wants to ban me, I inform him that it's not right for an admin to harass players and threaten to ban them just because they're winning.

He bans me. Of course I can change my IP and get back in, but I thought I'd relate the info here for everyone. This isn't intended to cause gossip about Colonel, because I'm sure he's an ok guy at other times. It's just info to inform others if they encounter him, just ignore his messages and don't bother speaking to him to give him an excuse to ban.

Thanks. :)
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orange
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Post by orange » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:50 am

Dervish DuKot wrote: 1:20am PST on Babel's "Low-lag" CTF server, with the admin "Colonel". He seemed to take delight in banning me when playing under the alias "cipher_nemo".

Colonel is abusing his admin priv. I was the highest scorer in the game when Colonel came in. After playing him for a while, he kept complaining about other player's lag. Of course I don't lag, and he never accused me of this, he still said "hmmm" whenever I destroyed his tank.
Colonel is one of the main reasons I stopped playing much at Babel's server. I saw a good bit of whining from him, and then he did a full flag reset (all flags, not just the uncarried ones) without warning, and right after his team's flag was captured, costing his team nothing, but costing all the other players their held flags.

I called him on it and, though he did not kick or ban me, he made it clear he didn't want to discuss it.

Simple mistake? No, the timing was too good. He was annoyed that the other team had good flags and had captured on him, and he used his admin rights to even things back up.

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Post by Dervish » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:52 am

orange wrote:...and then he did a full flag reset (all flags, not just the uncarried ones) without warning...
Interesting. He also made all the tanks super fast for one minute on a whim. It wasn't necessarily annoying or anything, but it is a sign that he enjoys his felling of power being an admin. He took delight in talking about it.
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Post by Workaphobia » Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:32 am

I ran into a problem today on a server I frequent - not admin abuse, just general ineptitude. I'm embarrassed to say that I could feel myself lowering to other people's levels, in terms of language and troll-feeding.

I think the major problem here is that there aren't enough well-known servers that have consistently great admins. With enough selection there's bound to be someone somewhere who takes administrating seriously and will be quick in response time as well as act ethically. But if that server exists, I've either found it already and am bored with the map, or there are never enough players on it to make it worthwhile.

Is there currently any sort of rating system for servers, or reviews? Perhaps if a reliable listing is set up, server owners will be more careful about who they trust with power.
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Post by rr » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:45 am

I play on babels server a good deal lately, and was apparently on at the same time as dervish when the events with colonel (under a different name, which seems to be the custom with a lot of older players lately) and can confirm at least the speeding up tanks for no good reason part. The other two (flag reset and ban) wouldn't surprise me that much either.

I have yet to run into any of the other admins on that server (although I did see someone by the name of babel who was a blatant cheat, not sure if it was the server owner or someone impersonating him though). My topic complaining about the polling feature was originally posted in response to the frequent conditions at babel with cheaters/annoying people and no admins around to take care of them, or indifference of the admins on the rare occasions when they are there.

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Post by Dervish » Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:41 am

Workaphobia wrote:I think the major problem here is that there aren't enough well-known servers that have consistently great admins.
I completely agree. It's a shame, but that's the way it is going in an open-source game where players must run their own servers. :( Oh well, I know the community will grow and weed out those admins who just don't work well in the role.
rr wrote:...(although I did see someone by the name of babel who was a blatant cheat, not sure if it was the server owner or someone impersonating him though).
Yes, I noticed the player babel log in to while you were there rr (not sure what screen name you used when there). He got 12-0 score until he was banned by Colonel for cheating. So, it was nice to have Colonel there for the cheaters, but not good to harass normal players.
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Post by Grumbler » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:03 pm

if you have issues with the server admins, then email the server owner(most have contact info either listed on their welcome message or in the server section here). if they have no problem with the way their admins have acted, then go somewhere else and hang out.

if you cant contact the server owner, post somewhere and ask to have the contact information.
.........you kids, get out of my tank...........

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