IMPORTANT: maps! (copyright info)

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:05 am

After seeing some stuff lately I've decided that it would be best for me, and many map makers, to copyright there maps.

Unless this is against the BZFlag license it's perfectly legal...
(Jeff?)

A Meteorite · Post by **A Meteorite** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:37 am

No, what I'm saying is that they should have: "Please ask me for permission to use this map." Or if they don't care put that. Copyright law says that as soon as you make something it is copyrighted. (You just can't take legal action - I think, if I was a lawyer I would know more.)

ducatiwannabe · Post by **ducatiwannabe** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:59 am

No, I don't mind if they host my maps at all. Just don't edit them without permission, especially for a bad way. I'll try to do the same from now on

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:03 am

Well, Acualy something somewhere else happend and I thought of maps... So just a warning.

No, what I'm saying is that they should have: "Please ask me for permission to use this map." Or if they don't care put that. Copyright law says that as soon as you make something it is copyrighted. (You just can't take legal action - I think, if I was a lawyer I would know more.)

You acualy make a licence that says what people can do and what they can't do.

Most professinal mappers I know have licences and readme's all bundled in a folder with the map.
(and an icon on the folder that it's in)

But I wouldn't go that far.

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:23 am

maps are not under the GPL
by US law users in the US have default copyright on the data.

the bzflag maintains copyright on the format, but not the data.

it's just like maps for any other game. or files in any other format.

lddw · Post by **lddw** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:27 am

I think we should only ask before we host or edit maps.

kinkyfriend85 · Post by **kinkyfriend85** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:51 am

The maps you do are not under gpl because it's not released within the gpl and gpl doesnt hold derivative work the way as like if you made an image with gimp it'd be under gpl. But it's not, cause what you do with the programmes if they themselves can create files is your own. Only the creative programme is under gpl.

However, if you used Warez the derivative work will not be yours. Many shareware proggys forbid you to make releases of what you have done too, and as long as you don't have the full verson it's not "yours".

Lone Wolf · Post by **Lone Wolf** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:27 pm

What is more easier to do then for copyrights, is doing it through email, so that you know who's getting it and who's is not, you will have complete control of who's getting it and who's not,

now that was juist a thought

Signed the one wolf on the forum

Lone Wolf

Matt? · Post by **Matt?** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:31 am

Hannibal · Post by **Hannibal** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:45 am

I think that he means that it would be easier to just email the maps than to copyright them, thought i am confused on that also.

Brennen The Great · Post by **Brennen The Great** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:57 am

ducatiwannabe wrote:No, I don't mind if they host my maps at all. Just don't edit them without permission, especially for a bad way. I'll try to do the same from now on

- or you shud just have the person ask permission before they try to host ur map (like me

!!!!).

ducatiwannabe · Post by **ducatiwannabe** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:12 pm

Sigh* I don't care if they host my maps, but if they change them...look I'm really ok with how things were working.

I_Died_Once · Post by **I_Died_Once** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:49 pm

This stems a bit from me, my admin team, and the Planet MoFo server in general. I know I posted on this is the "super secret, members only, Planet MoFo private forum, but since this is going to be raked over the coals, I'll up everyone to date on exactly whats going on. Maybe I'll give a few people more reason to hate me. Woot.

I did not know you made the original map we use on Planet MoFo. Honestly. WHen setting up, I downloaded about four or five different map packs, as well as looking through a map repository on sourceforge. I sorted through an ungodly number of potential maps, and settles with one titled "Christ.map" It was exactly what I was looking for - relatively small, incredibly simple, it was symetrical, I loved how the teleporters went. It worked for what I wanted.

Nowhere in the original map was there ever any lines commented out, saying "This map was made by _blah_ Please email me or contact _blah_ if you plan on using this map." There was none of that. And since I downloaded several maps at once and looked later, I was out of luck trying to dig up where I got it from. But I saw no copyright info, no contact anything. Just the map with boxes and pyramids.

Of course since then, I've used BZEdit, and BZFed (BZFed rules as a graphical map editor on linux) and I've added and taken away ALOT. Maybe one or two original boxes from the first version of the map is still there, if that. I'm telling you - we've (thats BIYA, Sir Panties, and I) have hacked up and edited the map all over.

Yay, the history of my server. Anywho...

Flash forward about, what, six months? Maybe more... All of a sudden, ductaiwannabe is coming out of nowhere all bent out of shape because I am using his crosses. Never mind the fact that I made them a hair shorter, and made four of them (one to face each direction) which included resizing, moving and rotating.

So his big deal is I got "his" crosses on the map, and the fact that he doesn't NOT like the way I run my server makes him all of a sudden feel the need to copyright all his maps. Bless his heart. I hate to be a meanie-head, but it would take a copyright to get me to stop using the map. Especially after we have completely reworked the whole thing from the ground up, knowing I have put more time, effort, love, and care into that map than DW ever did. Even if the original map is copyrighted - I don't feel the current Planet MoFo map is that same map, and I'd dispute pretty heavily, down to being defiant about it.

I know word is starting to trickle and sift around as to what we're woking on next at Planet MoFo. We're constantly pushing the limits, riding the border, and living on the edge. We are going to make EVERYONE mad. Well, maybe not everyone - but we'll sort you guiys out, alright. It will make a splash alright to say the least.

But I am not giving up the map, and I implore everyone else that has ever downloaded a map and tweaked a box or a pyramid to fit your liking. The whole "Lets copyright our maps so we have total control" is going to zap the fun and spirit out of the BZ Flag community. You guys are determined to make it where to run a server, you have to get permission from so many people, and you're gonna kill the game in the process.

Much love and keep on gaming.

ducatiwannabe · Post by **ducatiwannabe** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:57 pm

I didn't even start this thread. I'm really ok with maps and everything, only that paticular map was for a CHristian server (hence the Christ.map). Look Vader it's not like I hate you or anything, it's just I left because I didn't think the cursing and stuff was right.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:58 pm

Thats not what DW said or meant and you know it darth.
He made the original map in a christian sense, hence the name "Christ".
He didnt even actually ask you to change it, that was mostly me because If I made a religious map I wouldn't want it to be hosted on a server that encourages swearing... Its a matter of principles and morals.

Saturos · Post by **Saturos** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:17 pm

Where is the problem if somebody runs your work on his server? Isn't it that what you wanted to reach? Somebody who runs your map?

I start to hate any copyrights... go copyleft! Yay!
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:37 pm

@Darth_Vader and "admin team":
Ok, first...

When I heard about DW's map I decided it was a good time to talk about this...

I've had trouble in the past and that reminded me about it...

Although it had to do with DW this thread was not started to stick-one-to-you-guys!

I just don't want map makers to have trouble like I did!

Where is the problem if somebody runs your work on his server? Isn't it that what you wanted to reach? Somebody who runs your map?

[/qoute]

No, I don't think my maps are good enough to be run off somebody elses server.
(unless I asked them to)

Vadar wrote:But I am not giving up the map
Nobody said to give up the map...

I just saw what happend and it reminded me of some stuff....

So I'm posting about it!

Flash forward about, what, six months? Maybe more... All of a sudden, ductaiwannabe is coming out of nowhere all bent out of shape because I am using his crosses.
Hmmm........
If I remember correctly someone asked on the post if "we" should take the crosses out...
It wasn't DW!

He just said he was leaving and that was it!

So his big deal is I got "his" crosses on the map, and the fact that he doesn't NOT like the way I run my server makes him all of a sudden feel the need to copyright all his maps. Bless his heart. I hate to be a meanie-head, but it would take a copyright to get me to stop using the map. Especially after we have completely reworked the whole thing from the ground up, knowing I have put more time, effort, love, and care into that map than DW ever did. Even if the original map is copyrighted - I don't feel the current Planet MoFo map is that same map, and I'd dispute pretty heavily, down to being defiant about it.

You still used his map...

Legaly you edited it so he can still do something about it...

BUT!!!!!!!

Where did DW say you couldn't use that map???????????????

Nowhere that I remember......

So why should you be woried?

Yes, somebody asked if they should take down the crosses but it wasn't DW!

DW "left" that's it!
And that's all he was posting about!

I'm just saying!
People should be aware that they can copyright there maps!

you have to get permission from so many people, and you're gonna kill the game in the process.

They can put in the copyright that they don't need permission!

(which is what I'm going to do)

ducatiwannabe · Post by **ducatiwannabe** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:25 pm

Hey, I don't care if people host my maps, look above

I mean really what's the point of making maps if people can't use them..

1badplayer · Post by **1badplayer** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:22 pm

The way i see it is this. If you plublish your maps where anyone can download, change and use as they see fit. Then you have lost all rights to them. If you dont want your maps used in away you dont like. Just post pic of them and have people ask you for the map. that way you controll who gets it and how they use it. I have looked at a lot of maps, and in almost all of them i see things i would change. Not that there is anything wrong with the map, but to make the map play the way i would want to play on it.

The barn door as been opened and i dont think you can get the animals back in. so lets move on. I am new here i know that, but it sounds like some people are to proud of there maps to let them go. The one map i have made i am proud of, but i posted it so anyone can use, change or do what ever with.

BinarySpike · Post by **BinarySpike** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:48 pm

The way i see it is this. If you plublish your maps where anyone can download, change and use as they see fit. Then you have lost all rights to them.

No, you still control the rights to them because they edited the original.

If they started a new one "like" yours and added the stuff they want then you don't have rights to them.

go copyleft! Yay!
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html

And this makes extra sure you keep the rights.

ducatiwannabe · Post by **ducatiwannabe** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

I'm ok with what people do with my maps as long as it isn't a special map.