GUI map tool

General talk about the map making process.
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huw
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GUI map tool

Post by huw » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:45 pm

Are there any easier map making tools than bzedit?
Thanks

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Post by RPG » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:49 pm

Yes, a list can be found here: http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/coolbits-links.html
Go down to 'world editors'

None of them work for 2.0 maps, though. There is another tool not mentioned there called PyBzedit, also not 2.0 compatable, here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pybzedit/

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Post by huw » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:54 pm

None of them look to easy. I'll stick to map downloads.

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Post by RPG » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:20 pm

I'd say BZEdit is the easiest tool of them all, because you can click and drag the objects instead of using numbers to position them. (You have to mess around with the toolbar on top)

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Post by JeffM » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:59 pm

RPG, why do you keep saying 'NOT 2.0 compatable"?

the editors will make maps that run just perfeclty fine in 2.0. 2.0 is FULLY BACKWARDS compatable with 1.10.x. Those editors just don't do the new things that 2.0 supposts. It would benefit most new users to learn the simpler 1.10 object set before they learn about the new 2.0 features.

The way you keep puting it you make it sound like the map formats are totaly diferent and 100% incompatable. when this is not true.
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Post by Legolas_ » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:17 pm

JeffM2501 wrote:RPG, why do you keep saying 'NOT 2.0 compatable"?


I think he is trying to say that the new additions to 2.0 like the bouncy objects, death buildings...... ar't featured in the editors.

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Post by DTRemenak » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:30 pm

It'd be more accurate to say that they don't support any of the new features in 2.0. Saying that they aren't compatible implies that a map created with bzedit would not work at all with 2.0, which is misleading.

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Post by huw » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:43 pm

JeffM2501 wrote:RPG, why do you keep saying 'NOT 2.0 compatable"?

the editors will make maps that run just perfeclty fine in 2.0. 2.0 is FULLY BACKWARDS compatable with 1.10.x. Those editors just don't do the new things that 2.0 supposts. It would benefit most new users to learn the simpler 1.10 object set before they learn about the new 2.0 features.

The way you keep puting it you make it sound like the map formats are totaly diferent and 100% incompatable. when this is not true.
When is a version of bzedit with 2.X features going to be released?

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Post by Scorch » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:16 pm

as far as i've heard; never. I think the BZEdit project was terminated. but im not sure.

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Post by JeffM » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:44 pm

there are no plans to update the windows version of bzedit to include new features, there never has been. There are tools to help convert meshes, and an work in progress blender plugin.

The author of pybzedit has said that he was looking into adding new features to pybzedit, but I am unaware of the status of that project.
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welll

Post by Legolas_ » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:15 pm

well that stinks... I wish the 2.0 features would be as easiy as bzedit

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Post by RPG » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:43 pm

We all do, but if you have a strong drive you can learn C++ and start!!!

That gives me an idea... I could con a few devs to work together in making a BZEdit 2.0....

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Post by wegstar » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:09 am

learn C++ and start!!!
it sounds so easy... :cry:
Who was the original author of Bzedit anyway?
Formerly "nader"
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Post by RPG » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:11 am

JeffM was the author(according to the about button)

I'm learning C++ next year, I'll give a shot at something halfway-decent then. But by then BZEdit 2.0 could already be out :D

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Post by BIYA » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:48 am

Before we wait for about a year and a half for RPG to learn C++, I think you should start on getting some Devs working on it :wink: Need any help at that and I will help you in anyway I can.

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Post by RPG » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:48 pm

Yes I can help with website, PHP programming, uh... orginization... , testing...

Maybe a few devs want to start a sourceforge project?

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Post by 1veedo » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:58 pm

Can somebody help me with py bzedit?

I ahva bunch of python, I guess, source files but dont know how to compile them.

Thanks
1veedo (libcurl.so.2) I have version 3!

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Post by Valoche » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:09 am

Hi,
I had an idea a while ago about using some sort of Radiant based editor for BZflag.
I have a strong feeling that something could be made on top of GtkRadiant, which source code is available, to support BZflag 2.0 maps in a convenient way. The editor itself is quite easy to master, and has everything in texture and surface management to take into account every new feature.

Valoche

edit: and, oh, chances are good for it to work on OS/X :wink:

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Post by BIYA » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:34 pm

So your saying that it is still a work in progress Valoache?

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Post by Valoche » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:51 pm

Er... no...
I'm saying that it *may* be worth having a look at it. Maybe it's not feasible, who knows?

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Post by BIYA » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:03 pm

Okay so its already made?

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Post by JeffM » Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:33 pm

ok BIYA, why don' you just say you don't know what radiant is instead of trying to guess.

it's the quake 3 map editor. He is saying it could be a good idea to modify the editor since it's source is released to support bzflag maps. He's not saying anyone has done this, or that anyone is working on it, it's just an idea.

The similar idea was applied to blender, It's an existing editor, and a plugin was/is being made to let you use it to make maps.

Radiant is overkill for bzflag, but may offer features that blender could not easaly be moded to give the desired results. Quake maps are normaly stored in a BSP, this is very diferent from BZFlags "object" centric design, but there could posibly be ways to convert the data. I also think that it may be posible ( or even better ) to convert bzflag's map system to use a bsp like structure. The maps are small enough, so they would not be too bad, and realy you don't need to define object, just surfaces.
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Post by Scorch » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:26 pm

If we do change the bzflag mapping system can we still make it so that old map's still work. mabye this would require making it a .bzw or the other thing?

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Post by RPG » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:46 pm

.bzw is just an extention! Every file has one (well, most do) and the extention tells the OS what program to use to open it with! If you change a .bmp file to .txt, it will now open in a text editor, and you will get a whole bunch of strange characters.

BTW, is there a documentation on BSP format?

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Post by JeffM » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:17 am

There are many bsp formats, the quake one is binary, not text, it's not human readable. It's documented in many places on the net. It's very diferent then the bzflag method. If you don't have a solid foundation in 3d math and geometry you won't get it. Radiant is a full editor that does all the stuff that the format can do, so users don't have to care what the guts of the map are made of, they just drag brushes around

yeah you could probalby turn each object in an existing map into a brush and add it to the leafy bsp.

not that anyone is going to actualy implement this. I'm just saying what I'd do if I had my druthers. It would solve a number of problems. It would be a HUGE change and be totatly protocol breaking.

But then I don't have my druthers.
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