gg

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Cole l
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gg

Post by Cole l »

I am writing this post to thank all the players of this game. I have been playing since 2005 and I have met many kind people. Unfortunately for a few years, I cant play in ffa without accusation of cheating and other remarks of doubts about my game. I have never cheated, never have a bad language, and it is tiring to read this type of remarks when they are constant from admin players. I just got banned today for 200 days from apoc. for no reason other than these doubts. It's sad because bzflag have a small community and this permanent suspicion is losing players. Good games to you, take care of yourself, respect you when u are not sure about cheat. and thank you for the thousands hours, hard nights of gaming, it was fantastic! Cole (thanks Kierra for your kindness)
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Zehra
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Re: gg

Post by Zehra »

I'm sorry to hear this. Perhaps you may wish to ask and see if you are within a range ban too? This happens commonly when switching providers/services..etc Was there any specific servers or hosts which this was really noticeable? (Feel free to message me if you wish to discuss any specifics too.)

If this is the final farewell, take care and good games. You've brought some good times and some good moments, I'm sure there is a few players which do wish to catch up to your skill too.

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
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kierra
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Re: gg

Post by kierra »

Cole,

This is sad news indeed.
Will catch up with you on email.
<3 k
"Sometimes people try to expose what's wrong with you, because they can't handle what's right about you."
"Measure your words -- they determine the distance of your relationships"
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novembre
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Re: gg

Post by novembre »

Nooo Cole! This is very sad news indeed.
Unfortunately yes, public servers involve a rather constant amount of insults and accusations, which definitely spoil all the fun (and that's why personally I hardly play in public servers any longer); the better you play, the more accusations carelessly and stupidly arrive, even from players and admins you'd never expect to write such things.
Still, we've had a looot of fun playing HiX and ducati during the past years, haven't we? And I reaaally hope we'll have a lot more matches to play together!

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tainn
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Re: gg

Post by tainn »

Cole l wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:27 pm Unfortunately for a few years, I cant play in ffa without accusation of cheating and other remarks of doubts about my game.
Every single time. Being dominant in FFA naturally leads to that, unfortunately.

I, for one, never ban for assumptions. There always needs to be concrete evidence, and I implore other admins to do the same, at all times. In-game community pressure should not influence end decisions.

Apoc is... Apoc. BZFlag is open and there will always be a place for you here, perhaps much more on some servers than others, though. I'd love to see you around in accepting and embracing domains, should you decide to give this wonderful place another go in the future.
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lep
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Re: gg

Post by lep »

Well wishes, Cole! Will miss you and hope we can tank it soon. Time playing with you has been some of my favorite!
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ducatiwannabe
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Re: gg

Post by ducatiwannabe »

Hey Cole! I'm sorry to hear about the negative experiences. It's been good fun to play this game with you for so many years and you're a great player and teammate! I hope we'll see you again on BZ sometime in the (hopefully) not too distant future, but if not that's totally understandable. I wish you the best! You've definitely earned a heartfelt "gg" from me.
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R3laX
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Re: gg

Post by R3laX »

Hey nab, you are one of the best players in this game, good sport, skilled, creative, and quick thinking. We played together hundreds of matches, hix, duc, apoc, I haven't seen a single thing that would make me think that you were cheating. Let's sort this ban out, I would hate to see you leave because of a ban and false cheat accusations.
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Re: gg

Post by etigah »

I think you have just described the ban reason perfectly.
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Re: gg

Post by Pesky_UK »

Given that I saw you with my own eyes playing as nosense in the last few weeks and changing flags mid jump to WG then yes, you were / are cheating.

I didn't ban you for it but I did kick you for it. 10 seconds later you logged back in under your Cole handle (same IP address) and said bye.
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Re: gg

Post by etigah »

Technically, I think it's not possible to _change_ flags on client. The client side wings cheat does not appear to get the WG flag on other clients, only behaves as though it has one.

Besides, cole has played for years on league servers, and players there are notorious for sniffing even the subtlest cheats.. There was never anything suspicious about his playing.
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kierra
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Re: gg

Post by kierra »

Pesky_UK wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:45 am Given that I saw you with my own eyes playing as nosense in the last few weeks and changing flags mid jump to WG then yes, you were / are cheating.
I didn't ban you for it but I did kick you for it. 10 seconds later you logged back in under your Cole handle (same IP address) and said bye.
I cannot speak to what happened on Grue's server and to my knowledge he does not have a replay server.
The replay server for Apoc was viewed several times and the cheat evidence was found to be lacking and the ban was removed many days ago.
I notified Cole via email, but sadly, no response as yet.

Cheat accusations are way too common in public chat. Rein it in, people! Take screenshots, mark the timestamp and date for logs to be checked. Send to admins via forums. Do take note, just because a player is more skilled than you, doesn't necessarily mean he's cheating. Do due diligence before making accusations.
Last edited by kierra on Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gg

Post by Bertman »

My two cents.. for what it's worth. I have played with Cole for years on both league and public servers, and I have never seen anything that would make me think he was cheating in any manner. I have to agree with the others here that he is in fact a skilled player and I have enjoyed playing with him. I hope this does get sorted and you return Cole. I would hate to see something like this cause us to lose a good player.
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Zehra
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Re: gg

Post by Zehra »

Not to derail the main subject, but to simply address and expand on some of the commentary:

I won't say anything in for certain terms.

Now this is just some personal commentary:
* It seems that players who play under unregistered aliases are more likely to be suspected or accused of cheating.
* The game is virtually never in perfect sync with other clients. (lag causes minor offsets...etc)
* It's tricky to determine if someone is using subtle cheats.(From what I am aware of.)
* Players tend to suspect things which fall outside typical expectations.(BU shot with MG, ST shot with GM.)
* Even obvious "non-cheat" behaviour can be seen as a cheat.

For the matter to be properly put into perspective and content. (Note, it's possible some may be incorrectly paraphrased.)
A ban on Apoc did occur, later overturned due to lack of evidence. A kick occurs on another server (which appears to be Grue's). In short, we also have many players which have stated/commented that no sign of cheating, even subtle cheating was ever made or indicated.

Changing flags mid jump to wings vs flying without wings are entirely different things, in my opinion:
* Changing flags mid jump is not a cheat. (Easily done via the API or via the /flag give command, most likely in this case the API.)
* Lag can cause many extremely odd/unusual factors. (Laser kills player with Cloaking.)
This would explain a few things right away too. The difference of grabbing wings mid jump vs flying without wings in terms of lag.

---

From experience and In my opinion, it strikes me as too odd/unusual for this kind of cheating to occur. (Doesn't add up well/nicely, if cheating has occurred.)

-Zehra
Those who are critical of me, I'll likely be the same of them. ~Zehra
The decisions we make are the ones we look forward too and the ones we regret. ~Zehra
There's a difference between knowing my name and knowing me, one shows respect to my name and the other is to who I am. ~Zehra

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novembre
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Re: gg

Post by novembre »

Of course Cole does not cheat. That's ridiculous.
And that's not the point, I think.

What is really, really sad - and alarming, considering the very few players left to BZFlag - is that cool, skilled, kind players such as Cole, who have been playing for more than a decade, are forced out of the game because of such (usual) behaviors; that even these players that have been playing BZFlag for years and clearly enjoy it, stop thinking it is fun or worth playing.
This is not particularly encouraging to newer players.

I wouldn't know how to do something about it. In my opinion, for what it matters, admins should maybe take cheat accustions just as seriously as other insults and actual cheating.

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ahs3
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Re: gg

Post by ahs3 »

I don't believe that Cole is a cheater, I have played with Cole many times without a hint of cheating. I think to ban a player with 1 incident out of many years of playing clean, that could be a lag issue, could be jumping the gun. I generally will to continue to watch carefully for another incident to be sure. Having not seen what happened I cannot say what I would do in that situation. I would like to see Cole playing again either way.

Just my 2 cents.
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macsforme
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Re: gg

Post by macsforme »

I got banned for cheating once. The admin in this case was relying a little too much on her extended observer info, and saw a yellow tank speed indicator next to my name. I had the high speed flag prior to dying in the screenshot she showed me, and I think her screenshot showed me in my death bounce or briefly NR or something. Hardly proof of anything.

So yes, inconsistencies happen in the game due to network issues, local client issues, etc., and veteran players (especially) deserve the benefit of the doubt in these situations.
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