Do you think CAMPING is "really" bad?

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Hattori Hanzo
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Post by Hattori Hanzo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:08 pm

is there no sniping who be like camping its just camping , if u stay with one place u camping . Sniper changing posision all the time to stay alive not stay with one to get more score. Camping is bad because its created for "green" players (read nOObs) because if u have some skills u fight all teh time not stay with lazer or gm with one place and wait for somebodys jump thats is patethic.

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iamawinner
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Post by iamawinner » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:58 am

well my views towards camping changed lol.. i mean.. why not? do whatever u guys feel like doing....and i would go further but i would rant lol

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Post by Hannibol logger » Sun May 04, 2008 8:59 pm

not at all its part of the game without camping you wouldnt be able to do alot of things.like coming back after the other team is smoking you in points

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Quantum Tank
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Post by Quantum Tank » Sun May 04, 2008 10:43 pm

There are different levels of camping. Camping just a bit to help your team isn't bad at all, everyone "camps" at some point or another.

What I really hate are career campers . The way I see it, people who do nothing BUT camp only want points, and have little other skill so they grab laser, settle down on the wall corner or the pad above the base, and simply shoot everything that is on their plane or fire or the plane of fire that they can jump to. Generally its pretty easy to shoot them down, but often there are other campers protecting them and if you shoot them they'll just come back 30 seconds later. So basically, the only way to completely stop a camper is to camp back, and if everyone has to camp and camp back the game is no fun at all.

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Post by smurftank » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:17 am

Yay, my first post on the forums! (please be gentle)

Whether something is 'bad' camping really depends on the map. As many have said, some maps were specifically created for sniping action. But the map-makers also provided flags like ST to counter such actions, so use them!!
But that said, it can be really annoying in something like Bloodbath (which I don't play because I lag massively) when some people, especially a group of people in a team get a really strategic spot and can shoot for hours on end almost without fear, and you can't sneak behind for the stab in the back with ST. Those people just pile up points, and yet, I don't see anyone saying they're camping, because it's the theme of the map.

One really annoying case of camping that I faced was in one of the big tank servers. One guy had a really bad score, but then somehow he got laser in a corner and just sniped everyone, and got up to like 50+!! He was totally invincible, as it was big tanks he could hardly miss, so the only way to kill him was to spawn beside or behind him so he couldn't turn fast enough to kill you. That felt really bad, everybody else just spawning and dying almost immediately. THAT was camping, not skilled sniping, but on the other hand good for him, as he wasn't doing that flash at the start.

These days, I'm usually confined to Mofo, although under a different name. :) Well, on a good day, I'm very able with L, as I stand on one of the corner platforms, if I can make it. But it really bugs me when some people consider me as camping. On those platforms, you're exposed in many ways. People can just simply jump up and kill you if they're skilled, they can pop out of a portal and shoot you from the side when you're looking the other way. Then there are WG, CL, ST, SW and of course other L to look out for. It takes skill to stay up there, and you're very lucky if you can go Unstoppable. I know that people don't like it because you can shoot anyone that's jumping or on the same level, but as someone's admitted, it requires quick reactions and hand-eye co-ordination, and the right circumstances. (By the way, I don't use GM that often, I'm not too flash with that flag)

When I'm up there, of course it's all about the points. Now WG's a much better flag if you've mastered it, but I see people dropping WG for L all the time, just for quicker points. But it's also about the fun, put yourself in the position of those trying to kill you. You've presented yourself as a challenge, and you're a sitting duck. As a sniper/camper, it's fun to try and stay alive. Besides, you're only one player out of many. (unless you "happen" to be the top scorer)

Basically, I don't consider myself as a 'bad' camper. It's fun for everyone, most of the time. But just to clear things up about my integrity, I don't like to use L when Mofo's almost empty. It's just not fun, and frankly, people would leave if you won too much like that.

Back to camping in general, spawnkilling is really bad, as most people have said. It's just not cool. Especially in team games, you just feel really oppressed. It may require timing skills, but you get the whole opposing team feeling angry, and you don't want that.

Another form of camping that's really annoying is ST camping. The example I have in mind is Badgerking, where there are at least 3 really good spots for ST campers. It can be very frustrating when they kill you, and so you know they're there, but you can't kill them because they have the better spot. In those cases, just leave them alone. They'll have to move sometime, especially when EVERYONE knows they're camping there. The mapmaker made those places intentionally, you can blame it on them instead. (but you probably shouldn't, in case they ban you :shock: )

In conclusion to my long post, I really only think spawnkilling is really bad. As someone mentioned, almost no servers have unassailable camping spots, and there's almost always a way to kill a camper, even if it's G. In a lot of cases, the map's made for camping/sniping, or camping requires skill to continue for a long period. But there are clear-cut cases of bad camping, when everyone feels it's wrong. Just leave.

I can't really be comprehensive here, because I can't be bothered planning an essay on the subject, and because I only have a limited experience on a lot of servers due to my lag. Sorry if I've left out really key points!

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Quantum Tank
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Post by Quantum Tank » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:19 pm

Very impressive first post. :shock:

Anyways, my only comment is that what you described in the second paragraph wasn't exactly camping, it was more like spawnkilling from what you described. Spawnkilling is probably the worst thing you can do besides tk and cheat, and is generally kick/ban -able on most servers. If its really a problem and there are no admins, try doing /poll kill playername or /poll kick playername.
I can't really be comprehensive here, because I can't be bothered planning an essay on the subject, and because I only have a limited experience on a lot of servers due to my lag. Sorry if I've left out really key points!
You've got to be kidding. I'm sure very few people have made such a comprehesive post, and this one is your first... Great job!

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Post by ZGMF-X20A Strike Freedom » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:27 pm

Spawnkilling camping is bad.

Camping is subjective it depends on what you call camping. Perhaps there should be a law or rule to say that you have to move from a spot to a different spot after sucvh and such time. To be honest i prefer to chase my prey but you know.

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Knox
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Post by Knox » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:58 pm

Camping is Not REALLY 'bad'. Expect Base-camping! How i hate Base-camping. 'Normal' Camper can you easily kill if you use A special Flag or whatever his weak points is (All have a weak point). But Base-camper cant you kill that easily.. You spawn and faster than you can say 'bzflag' Are you dead... ! That's really .. annoying.
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Quantum Tank
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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:07 am

Base camping is generally spawnkilling, so it is against the rules.

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Re: Do you think CAMPING is "really" bad?

Post by Cpl Foggy Dewhurst » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:48 am

piet wrote:I always asked my: "What's so bad on camping?"
If you stay at ON places all the time, that's boring, but changing the places in a regularly rhythm (changing all 2 minutes the place you are).
That can't be bad, or ........................... your opinion:
There's nothing wrong with "camping", infact, it's very realistic.

I mean, would a real military team leave their base unguarded? No. They'd leave at least 1 or 2 centuries to keep watch while the rest of the team execute an assault on the enemy base.

There's obvious strategic reasons for camping.

A) Guarding the flag from enemy ST
B) Keeping base clean of enemy ST who cheat and just hang around to spawn-kill
C) Look-outs, a couple of people with ST in good, hidden positions between them could co-operate and advise other team members of what's going on around them and of course;
D) To lay down some grazing fire, slow down enemy targets trying to catch up to your team mate who's running back to base with the enemy flag.

Thinking about it, I'd say camping is a very important strategy, and should be high up on the list of priorities when it comes to team work, the team leaders should always organize his team mates and advise where a couple should 'camp' themselves with what flag, and then organize the remaining troops for an assault on the enemy base, whether it be a flanking manoeuvre which requires a couple of sacrifices, drawing the enemy away from the flag while an ST sneaks in and takes it (then the campers in reserve are there to lay down grazing fire) or whether it be a full on victory or death charge. [I always pick the best players on Red Team to think of as my leaders, I generally follow their lead/command]

The only people, in my experience this past few days, that get angry about "camping" are the people who get killed trying to retrieve the enemy flag....... despite the point of CTF being preventing such an occurrence.

So in my opinion, camping is good if done correctly, as long as there's only a couple of campers to stay on guard duty, and not at the expense of under-manning the assault group.
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Bisque
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Creme Brulee Camping

Post by Bisque » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:04 pm

I've built a special site
on a precarious height.
It has lasers and gms,
so your notes and pms,
will have to wait till after
my maniacal laughter
has faded from your ear.
They try to sneak up on my rear
but I've got mines to rend and tear,
and if they try to shoot at me
a shiny mirror they will see
as bullets go right back to them.
My enemies are brulee creme.

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Post by RatOmeter » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:28 pm

Quantum Tank wrote:After getting around to play a bit on the new missile war (finally), I've decided to revise my definition. Camping with laser is the worst. It requires absolutely no skill whatsoever except fast reflexes and hand-eye coordination. We have other games (and aspects of BZflag) for that. It's also just a cheap way to get a good score.

And spawnkilling. Don't even get me started on that. I will actually go as far as to tk somebody on my team who is set up to do that right before we capture the flag. (shhh)
I hope you've played Missile War enough now to understand that laser camping is about the only effective defense against the geno in the middle. If there are good laser snipers on each team, it's hell being a sniper. You'll jump to fry the guy trying to get geno and an opposing sniper will pop up and fry *you* in mid-jump. Laser "campers" are just about critical to the success of a team on Missile War.

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Post by Easy Target » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:13 am

Genocide Camping makes me happy

-End

:D
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Knox
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Post by Knox » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:29 pm

Easy Target wrote:Genocide Camping makes me happy

-End

:D
A giant server; only rogues; genocoide possible; limitless shots with Genocoide;
and you camp with Geno? You wont be popular!!
What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed? And what if in your dream, you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then? - Coleridge; English philosopher

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Post by Tank 52 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:19 pm

lol...piet he's popular haha you were wrong :twisted:
And camping,is fine really,st is made for camping especially at castle wars,if you die for staying in a certain place for staying there to long as someone said then they might've not played on pillbox where at some points,you find yourself hiding your tank in the middle of the map with your team on one end the other team at the other and if you were to move forward even a bit you'd be shot, so bad idea,camping is camping,base camping can't be stopped unfortunatley and i apologize for that but world weapons wont help since the person can just move away from them, then get close enough to spawn kill the other team,shooting after you spawn when your flag was capped right after you spawn,you have a 50 50 chance of hitting the camper,or hitting a temmate your choice your risk,gm camping annoying you? find cover or go to a different part of the map like a badgers,not to hard to avoid the gm campers if you know where to hide,there's also st which you can use,genocide camper keeps killing your team? simple tactic,dont spawn -.- just wait till someone on your own team kills the camper no sense in spawning to die 2 seconds later right? sw camping depending on where can be stopped,if they're camping your spawn after a flag cap either spawn and die then get your own sw or gm and kill him or just wait,cloak camper? use your radar and kill him,laser camping eh? two tanks? if they're on the other tank,simply spawn go down to your base pad and turn around opposite of the wall,and drive down or use the teleporter or jump pad,if someones laser camping just go up or down a level depending on where they are,and uhh this is my really long post on how to kill a camper hope it helps :P And ironically my really long post only had about one sentence about the topic itself O.o
Try to look unimportant,they may be low on ammo
Teamwork is essential,it gives them other people to shoot at.

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Dr Robotnik
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Post by Dr Robotnik » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:36 pm

In my opinion, camping is ok for a while, but it gets old fast. Keep it to a limit and you can avoid angry people.

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Post by LegoKid » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:12 pm

Camping is about the only way I ever get much of a score ;)

It's not very easy to camp on maps not made for camping. Map makers don't "accidentally" put drive-through pyramids on maps...

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end of

Post by Arseian » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:57 pm

Part of the game, always has been always will be. If you dont like camping, dont design a world that you can camp in.....simple! well not actually but you get the idea.
From he who loves to pitch a tent. :evil:

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