LAG LAG and more Lag

Talk between players of the game about the game ( no personal attacks )
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Zac
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LAG LAG and more Lag

Post by Zac » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:52 am

what do i do if people (admins included) are giving me stick about my lag, even though it is below the set lag kick

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Post by Knox » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:57 am

ignore them, if its under set lag kick..
Any other cases: try to fix it, if you don't want to leave server or try another. Maybe the problem was just the location of the server..
You're euro playing badger (location in us), you'll have lag of 200ms and more. So if you can't get along with that lag, you'll have to go obs or change server..

thats my hint..
just don't get angry and don't start swearing :)
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A few definitions...

Post by Bisque » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:33 pm

If you're curious about what these evil beasties are start here...

Lag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag
Jitter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter
Packet Loss: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_loss

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Post by blast » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:50 pm

I wouldn't recommend ignoring the admins. They can run their server in whatever fashion they wish, including banning you for lag even though you are under the lag limit. You have no inherent right to be on any of the servers. It's a privilege, one that they can revoke. Sometimes the lag numbers don't always reflect the actual lag that is being experienced (such as, if the lag varies a lot between our ping requests). If they are warning you, then you should heed the warning and try to fix your connection or find a different server closer to you. Also keep in mind that other issues can induce lag, such as a low frame rate (slow computer or graphics card), an old network card drive, wireless networking, etc.
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Zac
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Post by Zac » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:06 pm

so if an admin is telling you to fix lag that is below the limit i hve to fix it?

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Post by Grace F » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:34 pm

As best you can.
If you can't, tell them your situation.
I tend to get heated, I wouldn't recommend that approach. :)

They really shouldn't do anything if you're below the limit, but if they do, bad luck really.
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Post by llrr » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:00 pm

lol again the lag problem :P...and i mean AGAIN

usually a good server would have a good admin team, and their lag limit would be "the lag limit". If an admin warns you about your lag even it's below the limit then just leave the server lol, or ignore him, coz if he's not happy about your lag then why not drop the lag warn...

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Post by RexFlex » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:41 am

llrr wrote:lol again the lag problem :P...and i mean AGAIN

usually a good server would have a good admin team, and their lag limit would be "the lag limit". If an admin warns you about your lag even it's below the limit then just leave the server lol, or ignore him, coz if he's not happy about your lag then why not drop the lag warn...
That's about it. For someone like muself who's lag is geographically handicapped there is nothing I could do to "fix" it. I already have a fast connection and don't run other things in the background. That just leaves the very occasional burp somewhere in betwen my connection and the server that spikes it and would be beyond my capacity to fix.

So if either the server limit is below my lag or an admin doesn't accept my lag, there is nothing for me to do but a Montgomery Scott impression and then move on.

Personally, as an admin on one of the servers, I do tend to use the server lag limit as the guide. It is the only objective approach in my opinion. If people are under it (even barely), then its fine by me. If the lag autokick occurs and the player just rejoins with the same lag, then I'll kick them myself. If they ignore me, then they get a short term ban.

I don't take pleasure in doing it or use it as a revenge tool if someone on the laggy side gets the better of me on the killing grounds. I know there will be the odd admin who would revenge-kick/ban using lag as a reason, and that's their prerogative. For myself I see it as an abuse of power and have no interest in taking part in it.
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Post by Zac » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:07 am

the problem with my lag is i usually get spikes in the lag because im on a wireless connection, and that is when admins comment,
but people who blame my lag for their death are the ones im frustrated about, lag affects everyone

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Post by blast » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:46 am

The next version of BZFlag (version 3.0.0) will show a ping time in the server list. While it's not a perfect solution by any means (lag can be affected much differently once in game), it should give a better idea of what servers will produce lower lag. You'll even be able to sort by different columns, including the latency.
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Post by ts » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:02 am

Zac wrote:the problem with my lag is i usually get spikes in the lag because im on a wireless connection, and that is when admins comment,
but people who blame my lag for their death are the ones im frustrated about, lag affects everyone
Spikes are by definition called jitter (can be caused by packetloss) so the title of the topic is wrong. As you already know what causes the issue why don't you listen to the admins and fix it?

From my understanding you have an advantage as you're used to the problems, the opponents are not.
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Post by Zac » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:06 pm

eveyrone should get used to lag, at the moment it is part of the game, as annoying as it is.

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Post by Longhair » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:39 pm

Zac wrote:eveyrone should get used to lag, at the moment it is part of the game, as annoying as it is.
That's not quite how it works. If you have a server with 10 people, and 9 of them have lag around 100ms, and one player has lag of 300ms, the 300ms person always has the same situation: shoot ahead of everyone. Everyone else shoots right at 8 of the other tanks, but the one they have to shoot ahead of. That's the advantage the lagger has: consistency. A non-lagging player can at least hunt the laggers, but then you end up using hunt only to mitigate lag, rather than it's regular purpose.

Most admins that I know use the lagwarn value or maybe a bit higher before mentioning it to a player. Personally, I don't directly bother players until they get over 400ms, figuring that they're already being bugged by the server, and will be kicked shortly. If they rejoin I usually mention something. Some admins get really picky or just plain weird about it. The best you can do is mention it to the server owner and hope they take their side. Yelling at or insulting admins gets you nowhere.

Regarding the wireless connection, you could either make a small investment in an ethernet cord for about $10 (if even) and use that to play. If you just _have_ to play over a wireless connection, try keeping as few walls between you and the wireless access point. Maybe fiddle with the antennae a bit too.

If you really are lagging, before you say it's unfair and you can't do anything about it, remember that it's unfair to everyone else if you have that advantage. Also, before getting upset about unfairness, bear in mind that the vast majority of people in this world are most worried about where their next meal is coming from, and would be extremely grateful if not being able to play an online video game was their biggest problem. That's not really fair either.

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Post by Zac » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:21 am

fair enough, you make a good point longhair.

and i dont insult admins.

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Post by red-der » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:09 am

Maybe it dont fits perfectly as an answer to your question, but if others use the search function:

There are some players having bittorent clients in the background, streaming music or downloading something. Thats always the first thing I have to eleminate as a reason. Sounds banal, but it happens. The other 2 things:
Antivirus programs, some really rise your lag.
And wireless connections easily add another 100ms.


**These things dont make your IP-connection better, folks. If you play, the only online-application should be bzflag. And please, if an admin asks you gently, give a nice answer. (S)He tries to help you **

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Post by zaphod » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:46 am

good old lag ;-)
i think the lag issue is less important on a "sniper map" ::: but on "skill fight map" it is really annoying to shoot through your opponent several times without hitting him!
that is when players are starting to complain and ask to take steps from admins!
and we do have to react to the demand of our "clients" if there is something obvious like lots of lag!
to get lag free ::: choose a server from "your continent" to avoid lag to start with and as red-der mentioned ::: keep your line free for bzflag only and connect with a wire to the internet ::: and the lag issue is gone for you and you will start complaining about players with lag ;-)
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Zac
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Post by Zac » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:26 am

i dont really mind laggy players at all. but the problem is that there is only one server on "my continent" and that is rarley used. i can play on some servers, like badgerking and maris test maps but the again maris maps are usually only tests and badgerking is a ffa and i like to differ from time to time. BRL is rarely used and all the other popular servers either have a to low lag kick for me ie.missile wars, or are located somewere on the other side of the world ie. europe

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Post by llrr » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:49 pm

lol zac on the other side of the world you mean the more popular side of the world??

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Post by red-der » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:33 pm

Soooo, get your things together and move to us in the bzflag-wonderland.

We have 0 ms-lag-servers here, free PCs for bzflag players and if you know how to dodge, you get a lot of groupies.

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Zac
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Post by Zac » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:40 pm

yeah the more popular side of the world works for me.
bzflag wonderland?? where is that???

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Post by red-der » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:35 pm

As I mentioned above.

Here in europe, as a bzflag player, everybody bows down,
and welcomes you like a king.
So dont wait to long, buy a flight ticket and go.
You will not regret it

And did I mentioned the monthly 10.000 $ the government pays this unique heroes, called bzflag-players?

We wait for you
have a nice flight

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Zac
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Post by Zac » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:49 pm

great suggestion, but i cant really just come over there, maybe in 2012 :D :D

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Post by Longhair » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:39 am

bzflag wonderland?? where is that???
It's the next realm west of Neverland.

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Zac
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Post by Zac » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:57 am

ooo!!

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Re: LAG LAG and more Lag

Post by Landon » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

Would anyone mind giving me an idea of how much certain things effect lag? The reason I'm asking is to see which things I can easily fix and which I cannot. Thank you.

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