Rouges?

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tobylane
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Rouges?

Post by tobylane » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:47 am

i think rouges are too common, in players or options in servers. I don't think it's fair, and as most other games show, it's a common view. When they are in other games, rouges are Free For All, then team games have the normal teams. To me, rouges in team games is a mix of teams and FFA, which seems a bad idea. Why is it that way in this game? It is better?

I'm not trying to change anything, just to see the community's view.

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blast
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Re: Rouges?

Post by blast » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:18 pm

Allowing or not allowing rogue players is up to the server owner (or sometimes, the map author). If you don't like it, you're free to get a dedicated server and run your own instance of bzfs.
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Re: Rouges?

Post by joevano » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 pm

tobylane wrote:I'm not trying to change anything, just to see the community's view.
But you will complain about in incessantly... ;)

I have to agree with you that I do not like them in CTF games, but I usually don't play on those servers because of it ( as blast suggests). The option to configure a server that way are there for flexibility, the community can have an opinion on the matter but the server owner makes the choice. I would venture to guess that many players do not mind it because those types of server do become popular from time to time. If they didn't like it they would leave and go to a server that they liked.
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Re: Rouges?

Post by tobylane » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:58 pm

I guess you'll complain about my other idea proven by the rest of life, ie what you lot are too scared to see. It is the idea of not leaving things in a crap state, especially when you could make a new better thing aside it. Didn't you go to the moon because it was hard, not because you could? It's time to come back down to earth and think about the game.

None of what you said addresses the point, is it a likeable and fair gameplay and would some maps benefit as just being FFA or teams/ctf?

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Re: Rouges?

Post by Spazzy McGee » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:23 pm

tobylane wrote:I guess you'll complain about my other idea proven by the rest of life, ie what you lot are too scared to see. It is the idea of not leaving things in a crap state, especially when you could make a new better thing aside it. Didn't you go to the moon because it was hard, not because you could? It's time to come back down to earth and think about the game.

None of what you said addresses the point, is it a likeable and fair gameplay and would some maps benefit as just being FFA or teams/ctf?
In BZFlag 3.0, there is the option to have either a 'Team FFA', which is exactly the same as the current system, or 'Open FFA', in which you can shoot anybody and everybody.

You have no right telling people what they are or are not obliged to do.
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Re: Rouges?

Post by tobylane » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:47 pm

This is in players, I put it in general discussion because it's more about the servers than the people, but both still.

It's nothing about what should be done, but people will do what's possible (best proved in a bad way by this game). I'm wondering what people think of it, as I clearly said at the start. People assume I want change, so I clearly stated I wanted opinion. Just because you know that there's a ctf/teams server without rouges out there doesn't mean you will be able to enjoy the same map or the same high level of players.

A while ago I suggested every server goes a day without geno, many people wanted it to be a week. Why not try some five team maps as two team?

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Re: Rouges?

Post by joevano » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:56 pm

tobylane wrote:This is in players, I put it in general discussion because it's more about the servers than the people, but both still.

It's nothing about what should be done, but people will do what's possible (best proved in a bad way by this game). I'm wondering what people think of it, as I clearly said at the start. People assume I want change, so I clearly stated I wanted opinion. Just because you know that there's a ctf/teams server without rouges out there doesn't mean you will be able to enjoy the same map or the same high level of players.

A while ago I suggested every server goes a day without geno, many people wanted it to be a week. Why not try some five team maps as two team?
Convince the/a server owner to do it. The forums have no control over what maps are run or how they are run. Talking about it, is just that. Make it happen to get people to try it out. As has been stated several times, if you think the idea is great then set up a server and show it. Seeing it in action is what will convince people, not insulting the game and the people who play it and then saying you only want opinions.
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Re: Rouges?

Post by A gopher with an Uzi » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:28 pm

FFA maps with Rogues are fine, across the board. I like Rogue because then I don't have to be so careful about my shot placement or who I kill, but many times two or three colored tanks on a team have made it hard to stay in positive numbers -- the advantages even out, greater numbers and somebody has your back, vs, all alone and happy to kill anybody.

I hate CTF maps where Rogues are allowed, and I demonstrate this not by fussing about it, but by leaving and not coming back. They're rare, and map authors have the right to experiment and push the envelope, so why whine about it? Vote with your feet.

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Re: Rouges?

Post by tobylane » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:26 pm

Everyone is repeating that I should leave the massively popular servers as they are and add to the 370 servers that we have total(!) and equal(!) choice that we see. That still leaves something which may only be accepted because people don't know it can be another way.

I have suggested to some admins that the map they are hosting may be better another way. How was I insulting the game? It has flaws when setup in a particular way, as far as I see that's like saying the 3d vision setting is pointless and annoying and frustrating as long as I can't find my 3d glasses.

One person voting with their feet means nothing. One person asking others what they think, saying there is a choice will do no harm. Only a dictatorship should have anything to worry about someone saying that one small variation could be done better another way offered, that is currently done even more so. One person saying this can be two ways reminds people that it can be two ways. As I see, people have forgotten that things can be better than they are.

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Re: Rouges?

Post by blast » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:04 pm

Well, the project as well as the game servers are very much a 'dictatorship' for the most part. So take that into consideration when you try to push your opinion on others.

While you and others may not like rogue players on maps, a lot of other people do like it. When I used to play more often on FFA maps, I would always try to be a rogue player. I preferred not having to worry about teammates.

So anyways, you have made a suggestion. It is up to server owners to decide if they want to follow it.
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Re: Rouges?

Post by tobylane » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:19 pm

As I said, I am not pushing my opinion on server owners, I am reminding the players of what other games always offer and what this game is capable of. As I've had to repeat pretty much every point, I hope it's clear and I can get some real responses to the exact issue, not neighbouring combinations of words that aren't at all what I am talking about.

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Re: Rouges?

Post by Gamma » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:30 pm

If the server allows rouges its up to the player to decide if he/she wants to play with a rouge or with a team.
If you really don't like rouges then find a server that doesn't allow them ;)

I think we all see your point that they may be too common, but rouges are a part of BZFlag that probably won't just "die away" ;)
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Re: Rouges?

Post by dereliction of duty » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:22 pm

tobylane wrote:I am reminding the players of what other games always offer and what this game is capable of.
I know what the game is capable of, and I enjoy playing on servers where the conditions I prefer are used.

If a server is setup how I don't prefer the settings to be, ie; using the rogue geno plugin, then I don't play there.

if a CTF allows rogues, I do like to play there with varying strategies, ie; while playing as rogue, I'll sometimes assist the lowest scoring team - doesn't mean they won't kill me or I them.

One example is which ever team has the most overall points, I'll take their flag closer to the lower scoring team.

Just another repeat of what everybody else is saying, if you do not like how a server is setup, nobody is forcing you to play there.

Maybe I don't understand exactly what you are saying, but it sounds like you prefer CTF servers where rogues are not allowed.

Quote;
"To me, rouges in team games is a mix of teams and FFA, which seems a bad idea. Why is it that way in this game? It is better?"

1st part of that is an opinion (which everybody is allowed to have, should not be made mandatory because some or most believe it should be), 2nd part is a question (answer, because the server owner wants it) 3rd is another question (answer, to each their own. Better for some, not for others)

Enjoy playing on what ever servers match your ideals.

Myself, I believe I found a "cure" for this disease, install new O.S. and then avoid installing BZ. Coming up on 30 days BZFlag free with no noticeable side affects!

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