my bzf-wish

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my bzf-wish

Post by zaphod » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:48 am

it would be ::: one week all GM and laser sniping style maps offline!
back to the good old "mano a mano" fights we used to have!
facing your opponent while fighting ::: not hiding!
i am afraid the camping&sniping style ruins the game and drives off many players .....?!
so one week ::: thats my wish!





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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by hutty » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:03 pm

maybe for April fools week. But you would have to get all of the map hosters to cooperate. But I do agree. There are a lot of good maps online that are never played/discovered because of missile wars and the other maps at the top.

(Example:: louman's maps are almost forgotten at this point in time.)
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by darkid » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:51 pm

yeah... there are THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY SOME-ODD MAPS!
and FIFTY of them are used.
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Bambino » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:25 pm

I would love that! Maybe the people that have millions of servers up can make them into a bunch of rotation servers so the server list loads faster and it's easier to look through everything.

We should do an April fools thing where a vast majority of them do /flag up on as many maps as possible ;)
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Green Manalishi » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:39 pm

zaphod wrote:it would be ::: one week all GM and laser sniping style maps offline!
back to the good old "mano a mano" fights we used to have!
facing your opponent while fighting ::: not hiding!
i am afraid the camping&sniping style ruins the game and drives off many players .?!
so one week ::: thats my wish!
.
i couldn't agree more, except my wish is not limited to one week. i know neither is yours. :wink: i know all about different tastes and supply and demand, but i really don't understand what's so fun about playing on maps dedicated to sniping/camping. you can't develop or practice a lot of bz skills on those maps too... often i check the serverlist to see no half decent ffa map is populated so i decide to do or play something else.. :? ironically, if i'm not mistaken, it was louman (the best of the best) who had started this trend with his lasermania map. boxy war, two tanks, missile wars etc all came afterwards right? *









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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by tobylane » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:55 pm

Tbh there are a lot more 'do-without-this-for-a-week's to be done first, like no geno or all but louman's down but yes that too.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Quantum Tank » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:52 am

That would be fun, to just have no-flag maps up for a bit. However, I disagree that camping maps discourage new players, probably the opposite. If I were a new player coming to this game, I'd want to take part in a big epic battle with cool weapons than play with a style that involves (gasp!) geometry and lots of focus, and is quite different than any other first person shooter-ish game out there. Still, leagues are much more fun once you get into the game.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by hutty » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:48 pm

What if for the period of time we still had flags, just no GM L SW SB or G
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by tobylane » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:27 pm

I agree, but other people say that there are retro maps therefore your idea is pointless. So.. we won't get anywhere. MW2 for example should be tried in retro style.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by ts » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:51 pm

Green Manalishi wrote: ironically, if i'm not mistaken, it was louman (the best of the best) who had started this trend with his lasermania map. boxy war, two tanks, missile wars etc all came afterwards right? *
LouMan's maps are mostly not playable. They are sittable and look great but that doesn't equal to great maps. Of course your mileage may very.

I find camping and sniping boring, I want some action and I thus don't play on this type of maps.
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Green Manalishi » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:53 pm

ts wrote:LouMan's maps are mostly not playable. They are sittable and look great but that doesn't equal to great maps. Of course your mileage may very.

I find camping and sniping boring, I want some action and I thus don't play on this type of maps.
my mileage definitely seems to vary. i have spent hundreds of hours (and counting) on his maps and found most of them most playable. he has made a lot of maps, some of which don't focus on good looks at all. he has developed new plug-ins, new styles and made maps for them. there are/have been other great mapmakers, but at least in terms of original ideas and eye candy his maps are unlikely to be surpassed.

back to topic, i am personally not against any power flags (in fact i could be whining about pillbox and ducati right now if they became overwhelmingly popular), just those particular maps where all you do is camp and snipe/throw missiles.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by hutty » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:06 am

But if there are no power flags, thier is no camping (unless the camper is really creative)
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Death Racer » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:20 pm

Quantum Tank wrote:That would be fun, to just have no-flag maps up for a bit. However, I disagree that camping maps discourage new players, probably the opposite. If I were a new player coming to this game, I'd want to take part in a big epic battle with cool weapons than play with a style that involves (gasp!) geometry and lots of focus, and is quite different than any other first person shooter-ish game out there. Still, leagues are much more fun once you get into the game.

Ya, I agree with you quantum. Just try putting yourselves into a newbie pants. I remember my first times, I used to play missle wars a lot and loved it, because even if I didn't had any skills, I still could grab a good flag and do some defense in my base. That would make me happy. :)
But zaph, you're talking by the perspective of an experienced player, when you get to play in GU and duc maps, after having a neat experience of BZflag, you'll get to love those kinda maps and you'll hate Super flag maps. Because you'll always want more of that "mano a mano" fight. :wink: [I know, it happened to me, tho sometimes I still play these super flag maps to stop getting rusty..except missile wars..] Lets be honest, camping is a skill too. :lol-old:

But in overall, I love your suggestion.

Maybe a hack to all the servers that host these maps could work.. :book:

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by dexter » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:20 pm

When I started playing BZ, MoFo and Badgerkings were the places I did well. Ducati/Hix servers were just a whole other level of playing. When I started playing there more frequently I did well there and continuously got worse at Mofo and Badgerkings.
BZ has a parted playing community. One half does well on league servers and plays there 90% of the time and the other half plays of the community does well on the diverse public servers and plays there most of the time. So what some might feel is driving players away from the game, is more likely pulling new ones toward it. Even though I'm not a fan of MissileWars, it's obvious that the map is constantly drawing new players into the game, otherwise it wouldn't still be the #1 server out there most of the time, and that since November 2007. I think taking these servers down for a week, would drive people away from the game a lot more than attract. Leagues have always been a lot less popular than regular FFA/CTF servers, it's technically almost a different game entirely. There's BZFlag and then there's the Competitive BZFlag.

Play what you prefer and let other people do their thing.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Green Manalishi » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:37 pm

Death Racer wrote: Maybe a hack to all the servers that host these maps could work.. :book:
that's the spirit! :twisted: if i had any computer skillz whatsoever, i would give it a try... anyone? :rock:

if h4x won't work, i say exclude the newbs for a week, like ban them on sight.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Bambino » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:13 pm

Green Manalishi wrote: if h4x won't work, i say exclude the newbs for a week, like ban them on sight.
then we would have no new players to boost scores! :P
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Green Manalishi » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:27 pm

Bambino wrote:
Green Manalishi wrote: if h4x won't work, i say exclude the newbs for a week, like ban them on sight.
then we would have no new players to boost scores! :P
yea, but we should risk getting pwnt on cool maps than having no one to play against.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by hutty » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:34 pm

When I started playing BZ, MoFo and Badgerkings were the places I did well. Ducati/Hix servers were just a whole other level of playing. When I started playing there more frequently I did well there and continuously got worse at Mofo and Badgerkings.
BZ has a parted playing community. One half does well on league servers and plays there 90% of the time and the other half plays of the community does well on the diverse public servers and plays there most of the time. So what some might feel is driving players away from the game, is more likely pulling new ones toward it. Even though I'm not a fan of MissileWars, it's obvious that the map is constantly drawing new players into the game, otherwise it wouldn't still be the #1 server out there most of the time, and that since November 2007. I think taking these servers down for a week, would drive people away from the game a lot more than attract. Leagues have always been a lot less popular than regular FFA/CTF servers, it's technically almost a different game entirely. There's BZFlag and then there's the Competitive BZFlag.

Play what you prefer and let other people do their thing.
That is a good argument, but what if people are drawn to missilewars because it is on the top. Most people have an attraction to the first map they ever play (for example, first map i played, desert wars, i still love it) when missile wars is on top it is the first pick, and when a noob picks it they will come back, for a while. And in coming back, missile wars moves up and attracts more noobs, and the nuclear reaction continues.

now don't get me wrong, missile wars is a good map and a lot of experienced people have a great time there, but it doesn't deserve all the attention it is getting.

What i want to see is after a week of downtime will missile wars appear on the top again?
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by darkid » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:02 am

ohhhh... can i recommend a week?
I know that (for many) March vacation exists.
Maybe like the second week of march?
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Pluk » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:32 am

As usual, opinions vary. On a map without flags I wouldn't be able to score many points, just becuase of my lack of dodging skills. On the other hand, I don't like MissileWars either or other maps were the only thing you appear to be able to do is camp and attempt to shoot anyhing that moves. BadgerKing's is still one of my favorites as it appears to have found a good balance between camping and being able to kill a camper. Unfortunately there are not many players there nowadays.

A week without superflags ? Naaah not my idea of fun (although a permanent ban on the use of WG would be welcome ;-)
A week without newbies ? Definately not. We've all been newbies and it has taken quite a while to become who we are now. I certainly remember being tutored a couple of times by more experienced players. Without them I would probably not be playing this gamae anymore.

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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by zaphod » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:30 am

huttymuncher wrote:That is a good argument, but what if people are drawn to missilewars because it is on the top.
somebody that discovers bzflag these days joins a map were players are and most probably joins in right the top one without searching any further ::: he wants simply to play!
finding himself in the new bzflag-universe he gets immediately shot without realizing why (while still learning how to drive his new tank).
well after a while he finds out that he got shot by some laser sniping tank on the other side of the map and will try to apply the same tactics (obviously everybody else does it).
or he thinks ::: thats no fun ::: and joins another map.
lets say a GU map ::: while wondering were all the flags went, he can at least enjoy to finally drive with his tank and discover the vastness of a map. but he will not get far! very skilled players will have no mercy on the noob and after some moments of "slaughtering" he will leave the game and wonder what just happened there.
well the next map on the list will most probably be just another Laser AND GM Sniping map ...
now he has 2 choices ::: either he will adapt to the Laser AND GM Sniping technics (and keep those maps on top of the serverlist to repeat the same story for the next new bzflagger) or delete bzflag on his box.

i might be completely wrong here but thats my personal opinion and why i believe bzflag "suffers" a bit lately. either you enjoy the sniping style or you go on to the next game!



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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by darkid » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:30 pm

Or you join one of about 200 other servers which no-one plays ever. Most of which are ffa maps with large maps, nice graphics, and a lot of intricate design... but you won't, because who wants to sit at a map, discovering it's secrets, waiting for max 30 minutes until someone else logs on?
and then you tell them how it works and then you play... and the map jumps up the list for a day.
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by hutty » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:15 pm

now he has 2 choices ::: either he will adapt to the Laser AND GM Sniping technics (and keep those maps on top of the serverlist to repeat the same story for the next new bzflagger) or delete bzflag on his box.
good point there to, but there are many non sniper style servers that are not GU maps. for example badgerkings, lots of room to explore dog fight snipe or whatever.

also most people know they are going to be horrible when they first try something new. It took me half a year to get positive scores on a regular basis.
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by darkid » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:13 pm

heres an idea: try it for a day. see what happens.
*poof*
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Re: my bzf-wish

Post by Strakowski » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:32 pm

I agree, it is really a disappointment that only a handful of maps are ever used. I feel like I might be drifting too far from the original topic, but maybe we could implement some sort of "Underused Map of the Week" kind of thing. I guess a plugin could advertise the selected map on other servers, or maybe it could go in that Message of the Day text box that always tells me to buy a t-shirt. It'd probably be more work than it's worth to make the map stick to the front page.

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