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everyone knows I cant practice what I preach... Geno Tactics
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:38 am
Hey- just gonna disect some geno tactics with you all....
When YOU have geno:
- Usually, unless your freakin awesome or are on the right map (small, little cover), dont charge out right away.... you dont do it normally so why do it now!
- Avoid others with better flags than you
- Conserve shots (NO BLAST AND HOPE!!!!)
- When you die (it sounds like cheating) watch your radar for the flag respawn
- DONT SHOOT YOUR TEAMMATES!!!!!!!!
When you are against geno:
when you are good:
- find a good flag and avoid a direct conflict
- attack head on
- use some tactics from below.....
when your not so good:
- warn your teammates, let them handle it, or band together
- run for your life
- try and find a good flag
- say a full map (n [your message]) "GENO!!!!!! [genos location, if known]"- this freaks them out, if their not an experienced player
- OR: all of the above!!!!!!!!!!
Have fun NOT pissing off your teammates/pissing of the opposing team(s)!!!
The Tedius guide to geno
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:30 am
I think I geno'ed the same person twice this afternoon, what was his name... crazy tangerine? silly orange? something like that...
If you have geno:
wait at the bottom of a box for tanks to jump down, someone will inevitably try to be the hero.
If you don't have geno:
don't fall off boxes hoping to catch the geno off guard, you won't.
If you have geno:
wait around the corner, fire just before the person comes around. Someone will inevitably try to be a hero.
If you don't have geno:
you know where I'm going with this...
In general, wait it out until the geno gets bored or frustrated and does something stupid. Don't try to be a hero.
One more thing, with the geno, if you are engaged with an opponent, don't be afraid to try a trick shot, like a difficult ricochet. It will catch them off guard and you'll be surprised how often it will work. Be patient, bold, and smart.
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:59 pm
Geno defense tactics depend heavily on the map.
Missile War is where I see geno used most, and there the best tactic is to GM or Laser the geno just as it tries to leave the hot tubs in the center. I don't think the TH ever works as it was intended there so no one bothers with that. Attacking the geno with OO or other flags nearby is generally risky. SW works well in the tubs, but it's a big waste of time to haul it all the way there. Usually, you just have to wait for one team or other to snipe the geno and that's it. Of course, if you have a team with a weak defense, then geno can be a real pain on MW.
On two tanks, geno tactics have changed, as the flag seems to have moved, and it now appears in other places than the center. It's more of a surprise when it shows up. DW's castle warfare is similar. Geno has a role on such maps where it can briefly alter the tactical balance, but it's difficult to recommend specific tactics about it.
On FFA maps, like Mofo and Badgerking's, geno has a much smaller impact, even when it is not shot-limited. For a time, when Mofo hosted two-team CTF, geno had a role there a lot like Boxy, when it was popular. I never did figure out how people were supposed to defend against that there, particularly when the center field (where the geno was) was so crowded, so that the geno would just spend it all right there, before picking up a new one.
When I first played BZF (on Boxy), the effect of geno reminded me a lot of the op-wars of some IRC channels/networks in the 1990's, except that geno was somehow legit (If you weren't on IRC then, I don't think I can begin to describe the experience).
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:11 am
Sometimes I find that getting a geno makes me more cautious than I normal... which isn't always a good thing. Being timid about firing at someone can make you more prone to miss. That are other factors, of course, but there's something to be said for being bold with geno.
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:03 pm
I've found using geno in missile wars, when there are no snipers, or they're busy then I break for my base. When I get in, I blow everyone up if they get within 50 meters of the walls
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:22 am
Meh. Genocide is a multi-faceted tool. It's a double-edged sword in the sense that it *can* be a strategic tool, but, without premade teams, it's hard to get a team to use the Genocide in this fashion unless the map makes such use "easy".
In the general case, there are two general schools of use for Genocide. Aggressive (you hunt) or passive (you wait). Depending on map, power balance, skill and not least of all patience, you should think hard about your choice. As much as Genocide does nice things for your score, it does a lot more for your team, if your team plays to the Genocides advantage.
Of the active maps that I play today, three have Genocide available, Two towers, Bloodbath and Mofo FFA. The tactics between the three of them vary quite a lot and make for interesting case studies in what to do with the flag.
Two towers is by far the server most aligned to CFT of the three, Bloodbath has CTF, but is rarely played heavily towards CFT and CFT yields little from a tactical point of view, but I'll get back to that. Two towers has one annoyance, the sides move (ie, blue will control red space and vice versa now and then). This makes strategic use of Genocide difficult, since even *if* you use it at the right time, your enemies will spawn in the "wrong" place unless you manage to move your entire team quickly and efficiently into the desired territory. Genocide on this map is also a random drop, not a static flag. This means you can't reload and keep suppression constant, which again means that you have to make it count while you have it.
On this map, Genocide is almost always best use passively, waiting for your targets and being patient, your team will almost never be able to capitalize on your Genocide hit to any extent (a flag carrier might, but he's a member of the team, not the team itself). The map, with its current flag layout, would probably be amazing with premade teams though, as you *could* manipulate territorial control with Genocide.
Bloodbath has CTF, but it's rarely played out. Caps are far and few between as CTF actually serves to *disturb* suppression of the enemy. Apart from people being lazy (and that CTF scores mean nothing to most people), this is probably the main reason the map sees so little CTF -- it's almost always more fruitful to establish dominance and sustain it. This leads to the "default" use of Genocide on Bloodbath, push the balance of power to your side and then reaffirm it into a complete lock down.
As the drop is 100%, you wish to get the kill and ensure that the flag, once you drop it, is reused by a teammate. This requires complete control of the center of the map, and this is almost impossible if the flag is used passively -- as passively on Bloodbath translates directly as "in defense of your own base". However, *if* you manage to "steal" Genocide while on the weaker team, it might be prudent to run home and wait, if you doubt you can use it to establish dominance.
To me, this points out a flaw in the map. It moves spawn killing from "that's an easy way to get some kills" to a way of keeping complete dominance via one flag. Once inside the enemy base, with a few (two or three) members of your team that know to use Genocide and to wait for it once its spent, you should almost *never* lose dominance of the map. The hilarious thing is that one thing that will make you lose dominance is a cap by your own team, since the world weapon will remove all suppression from the enemy base. This is a major problem with the map in my eyes.
There are a few solutions though. One would be to remove Genocide, the other would be to have it have reduced spawn rates (the problem with this is that you still see the flag drop, and retake that flag until it becomes Genocide while your teammates suppress the enemy with SW / GM / L), you could make a cool down on Genocide, once in play it won't spawn for a set amount of time (a few minutes would do wonders), and one of my favorite ideas, make Genocide proc the world weapon of the enemy you hit, but *only* hurt your teammates, thereby outright removing Genocides power to suppress a team. Some of these solutions aren't available in BZFlag today, so they're out from a technical point of view, but in my opinion, something should be done. A quick fix is to remove to the flag.
Bottom line on Bloodbath? If you can, sadly, go for the enemy base. Lock it down, have a teammate reuse the flag. From a tactical point of view, it is by far the best use of the flag on the map. :-(
FFA and Genocide is annoying, but it's also a map where passive use of flags (outside of SW traps in teleporters etc) is really hard to pull off. It's chaotic and messy, it's FFA with all its ups and downs. Hunt, hunt, hunt. Don't get greedy, treat Genocide as just another super flag.
Playing against Genocide
First, I'll be blunt, if a teammate is about to get hit, TK if you can. It is without a doubt a horrid thing to do, but it *is* better than your entire team getting killed. There are lots of ways to kill Genocide, SB, SW and ST are the traditional killers, CL is for suicidal (or laggy, sigh) people. L can work, depending on maps. However, if you are reading this far down, odds are you don't get hit with Genocide often, the problem is, you have teammates who do. ;-)
One of the main drawbacks with Genocide is that a skilled attacker (or, one with a pulse), will look for an easy kill. Tanks who fall, tanks with low scores, tanks without flags, they're your targets. If I see someone skilled pick up ST when I have Genocide, I know they see me and I know they're most likely coming for me, so I try to figure out their play. If I see a "free" kill, I'll rush for it, if not, I'll go into passive mode and wait for the ST. You'll be surprised at how predictable most people are with ST.
Anyway, bottom line, Genocide is an annoyance. A fun annoyance for those who have it, a real pain for those who don't. The flag has merit, but it's over utilized by servers, it's too easy against random teams, since it puts a lot of power in a strong players hand, and its use against weaker team members means it really preys how a team is as weak as its weakest link.
Now you might say, but Dew, you use Genocide all the time, aren't you being a hypocrite? Not really, I play to win. I (almost) always do. If picking up Genocide will lead to that end, I will pick up Genocide, and I will use it to maximum potential as best I can. On maps that make it a suppression tool (today, essentially Bloodbath), that is a real pain. However, I've also suggested (many times) what I think should be done about this situation. If its not changed, the status quo is obviously accepted as "good enough", and that's the map, and game, we play.
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:45 am
D is for Dangerous wrote:thats a freakn huge responce man
my eyes hurt from lookin at it
It was a post-in-waiting, I've told myself over and over again that I was going to reply to it, and put it off because I wanted to actually reply with some content beyond "meh, Genocide is a complex beast". ;-)
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:48 am
geno is awsome on many levels there is no flaw with it cept low shot count
its the ultimate flag in a sence
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:04 am
D is for Dangerous wrote:geno is awsome on many levels there is no flaw with it cept low shot count
its the ultimate flag in a sence
Genocide is the "ultimate flag" in a sense, but the problem with everything "ultimate" is that it can lead to a severe imbalance. On Bloodbath, this is the exact problem when its used well, six shots is too many on that server. When it was reduced to three shots for a while, it helped, not a lot, but it helped. I mean, I've had 6/6 kills with a Genocide on that map. But, as I said, that's not the big deal, the big deal is what it does for the teams.
All powerful flags should be privy to some checks and balances to ensure that its powers don't affect the gameplay too harshly. Any map that puts out a Genocide flag needs to evaluate how its powers are countered.
As a side note, once upon a time, Genocide was a 100% drop on Vipers Two Towers, that led to very much the same problem that exists on Bloodbath, except that the flag was harder to farm due to map geometry. There were reasons the drop was made to be less than 100% on that map, and it was a tremendously good change, *even* though the map itself makes Genocide less powerful than on most servers.
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:09 am
geno is good on badgerking cuz it has rogue geno there either that or it was mofo,anyways ffa servers with geno without rogue genocide makes geno there almost useless cuz most players go to rogue teams
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:32 pm
The best map to use a geno would be at a 2-team place (preferably NOT a capture-the-flag [because if your flag is captured you will die, of course]). This way, there are more teammates to help you out and you will kill half the people in the map with one kill (that doesn't make sense...
) instead of 1/4 from a four-team map.
Once you have geno, find a happy place (definition: area in which safety is in abundance) and wait for a weaker player to come to YOU. Don't get impatient and stroll into their densely-populated side of the map. Though there are more targets, there are also more people that want to kill you.
Only use one shot at once. The very thought of getting your whole team killed by your actions (or lack of action) strikes fear into the heart of every half-decent BZFlag player. One shot will make them freak out and jump, probably, allowing you to go in for the kill. ...S. Kills.
Like you said, Looney Kumquat, stay away from those with better flags, such as Wings (especially annoying), Laser (those with laser will do some insane ricochet shot or a long-range snipe shot and you won't stand a chance), Shock Wave (if the one with it knows how to use it [i.e. Sits on top of a box, pyramid, etc.]), or maybe Guided Missile (although they can be easy to dodge - just drive perpendicular to their position, the GM won't be able to catch up with you). Also avoid players near the top of the score list.
That's all I can think of at the moment. I hope I've helped!
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:33 pm
What you wana do is grab Geno, then hunt anyone who might kill you (Powerful flags, high scores, etc.) OR easy targets (Low score, people that like being heroes.) I, personally, am passive on GMwars, aggressive on bloodbath, an suicidal at Mofo (rouge geno
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:46 am
At Planet MOFO, why does it seem like when your'e Rogue, you fall victim to Rogue Geno, but when I look to see who has Geno, nobody does?
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:51 am
BAd Dude wrote:At Planet MOFO, why does it seem like when your'e Rogue, you fall victim to Rogue Geno, but when I look to see who has Geno, nobody does?
Perhaps a rouge suicide geno, the rogue kills himself or another rogue. The killer an every other rogue dies with him.
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:28 pm
maybe someone can back up my sweet geno power =D
get the geno and charge
geno campers are stupid, because they are just waiting for some noob to come by
if you get six shots, you better geno them six times
after you geno them x amount of times, say "suck failure freak"
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:56 am
I Think Best way To take Geno Down is With Laser, Gm, SB or ST.
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:30 pm
Dew capitalized an important aspect of geno on mofo. use it like any other powerflag. There are no shot limits on geno. You can basically grab it, and then start spraying. Chances are you'll hit some one.
as for my tactic against geno users? Grab any flag i can and go after them. Unless its mofo, the geno will be limited to less then 5 shots. If the map has rico, more power to me then. The geno holder isn't going to waste any shots on rico.
If he's on the ground, he either has to jump to safety, or return fire. Again, seeing as 90% of the servers limit the geno to less then 5 shots, chances are, he'll jump. If you're good, jump up after him, shooting, chances are again, because geno campers are paranoid and looking for the "perfect wave" they'll jump again the instant they hit the building, to avoid your shots.
results? they either lose the flag, or are killed in their haste to escape.
If they are camping on a building? Then I'll use Jump shots from far distances. Like when they camp beneath the base on overlord.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:50 am
I genoed a team eight times in a row... it was lovely.
I play on the Ducatiwannabe server. The best way to get the geno is with wings. then, jump into a triangle and wait for someone to come along.
The geno on that map has three shots. if you are lucky, after hitting someone with geno, head quickly to their base. if you get inside, you can kill them two more times as they respawn.
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:34 am
IZBOY wrote:I genoed a team eight times in a row... it was lovely.
Hey..i was on the team you geno'ed eight times in a row. It seemed like 20, and it sucked!
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:47 pm
It depends on the map, of course, but when I get geno I often put the worst player on the opposing team on hunt and try not to get killed before I get to him.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:17 pm
all the time i get geno in castlewarfare. Then i go on the first floor of the opposing team in the middle. wait for someone to spawn on the sides shoot in where they spawn and kaboom! Then most of them spawn on the second floor. so i jump up so i can shoot on the second floor. they die again. then jump onto the second floor wait till they spawn on the first floor and fall down onto the first floor. shoot in and they die again. look onto the radar to see where the flag spawned. REPEAT
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:11 am
Nowadays geno must be most used on missile wars, one tactic people rarely use is to get the flag and head back to base. Someone WILL, and i mean it someone WILL jump in with st from one of the jump pads, most likely they will jump to a place you can see them land, just camp right under your base, you will see them, if not then they jumped onto your pad. tell your teammates to be careful as you have geno to kill that st but you don't wanna tk your whole team, then just go and kill him. St's jumping into a base would most likely not move or move very little, so you have plenty of time to kill him. Very good tactic this as you have a good chance of geno kill (because either you geno kill the st or your teammates would, you're surrounded by teammates not opponents), and you deny your oponents from using geno against you, especially if they have been continuously genoing your team.
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:13 am
This one is for Missile wars only, I prefer to go up to the geno tower with st unless there are snipers then I ether snipe them out or go up with cl, when you get there look around for campers who are not paying attention and drop down and shoot them (takes timing) or sit in a pyramid waiting for some poor unsuspecting player to drive by and shoot them. There are many different styles that players use to destroy a team but everyone is unique (yes, I know, funny) so incorporate your own style and dominate.
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:03 am
Re: everyone knows I cant practice what I preach... Geno Tactics
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:06 am
Missile War 2.3 - I've found that Genocide tactics at Missile War 2.3 has changed quite a bit. Sure the odd team with a few new players gets into the negative scores quite quickly, but, no longer can you fall down onto a laser camper on the wall and get a somewhat easy kill. Now the main tactic is waiting on the platform that is level with the top part of the base wall and waiting for a player to jump into harms way. Another way is the waiting along the openings of the base and waiting for a player to jump by, or even running along the ledge to kill a camper then jumping down to the ground waiting for a new player to fall and then shoot. You can also wait on the top part of the rail that sticks out of the base waiting for a player to join or someone to jump up into your shot.
Bloodbath - The main trick with Genocide on Bloodbath is it making sure when you are "geno searching" is that lasers aren't sticking out of the corners about to laser you. Making sure that the players are clear, you can proceed to:
1) Hop up the cone onto the rail and slide into the base and immediately fall into the STealth, CLoak, SEer, and MasQuerade pit. Wait until a player falls into the pit, geno, and repeat until you run out of shots or die.
2) You can head straight to the enemy base nd sneak around a corner and hope to find a player turned around, or, just not paying attention. Geno, hop into pit and wait, or wait for a player to fall into your shot.
3) Almost guaranteed geno kill (6X) is the head back to base and wait on the back edge of the base and wait for a ShockWave or Guided Missile player to fly and fall into your awaiting trap. Repeat.