A list of flag strengths and weaknesses

Questions and comments on tactics and playstyles
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Quantum Tank
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A list of flag strengths and weaknesses

Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:46 pm

I've decided to make a list of which superflags are best used against other superflags, which superflags are good on certain maps/styles of maps, etc. I'll put some in myself, and add any suggestions as they are made.
Note that the lists are purely mine and the others who have suggested's opinion. If you are of a different opinion as to which flags are good against which flags, please tell me, your opinion is valuable. Also note that these are not guarenteed to work, much still relies on skill and situation.

Flag beats Flag List:
SB vs OO
SW vs OO
SE vs ST
SE vs CL
CL vs L
L vs SW
WG vs L
GM vs L <- sometimes L can hit GM while GM is out of range, also depends on situation
GM vs WG
GM vs SW <- Sometimes SW can hit GM in hard to reach places, depends on situation
GM vs CL
(yes GM is good against a lot of flags)
ST vs GM <-(all past this are suggested, and edits)
SB vs PZ
SW vs PZ
WG vs BU
SE vs MQ
A vs BU
HS vs BU
TH vs BU
WA vs ST <- thank you BZNewman for this creative thought
GM vs BU
N vs BU
A vs GM
HS vs GM
T vs GM
Obesity vs BU <- Possible....
ST vs BU
ST vs ST
L vs L
GM vs GM <- Maybe, but unless one GM is destracted (and usually one is) then the exchange will end up with both tanks destroyed
The list goes on, suggest please!
Last edited by Quantum Tank on Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:34 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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Post by meeba » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:39 pm

SB vs. PZ
SW vs. PZ

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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:48 pm

Don't forget, I need suggestions for a list of what flags are good in certain maps or map styles.

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Post by CannonBallGuy » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:20 pm

SW and L beat GM in a lot of cases
WG can beat BU...
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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:06 pm

I usually thought that GMs can hit SWers before they are in range, but i guess SWers can hit GMers on high places...

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Post by slon02 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:15 pm

SE can beat MQ.
You made a mistake on your SW vs PH, i think you meant SW vs PZ.
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Post by SkillDude » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:23 pm

Also,

A can beat BU
V can beat BU
TH can beat BU

they can all possibly go faster than the person with BU, depending on the server variables.

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Post by Contamination » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:29 pm

GM's CAN kill st. the gm shot just needs to have a second to depoy and if it hit's a st, then it will kill him. You just can't lock on to a st with gm

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Post by Contamination » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:30 pm

PZ can also kill PZ when both tanks are zoned

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Post by Warinthestar » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:39 pm

gm>bu in most cases the burrow dosent move fast enough to avoid a gm

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Post by A Vicious Muffin » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:40 pm

Narrow and tiny are quite good against burrow, especially head on. Not too great against laser, but in my opinion, good against guided missile.
Agility and high speed are good against guided missile on most normal servers.
Thief is only good for killing with the flag itself on burrow, but I would classify it in it's own column. It's usually the best flag on the map, if you steal it correctly.
Shock wave beats steamroller. Steamroller works well against all players above and below it.
Blue team is better than red team. :wink:
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Post by Contamination » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:45 pm

Well if you think about it, most flags can kill any other one.

Like you could do:
L-SW
L-GM
L-WG
L-GENO
L-ST
and so on...


like the only flags laser can't kill is cl and a burrowed bu.

you could just do that to every flag there is and have quite a long line

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Post by BZNewman » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:56 pm

I don't know if this counts for anything since bad flags are usually only temporary and just a few seconds at that. But, Wide Angle can sometimes be helpful against Stealth in terms of extending viewing area. It's worthless though against a Stealth that gets in behind. So, I wouldn't say that WA "defeats" ST, but can be helpful.

SR can be helpful against a player who jumps a lot (e.g., 2 tanks jumping into each other while going at it). Besides being useful for jumping up to get a player above you, it can also help against OO-flag players in a narrow wall or are sitting near the edge of an obstacle (e.g., pyramid, pillar, etc.) while inside.

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Bad topic, I think

Post by A Looney Kumquat » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:26 pm

I think for the most part, this is all in vain, because it matters how good each flag is (shot count, range, reload time) and if you are a good BZer you can pretty much beat anything with anything.... it also depends heavily on the server, tank speed, and availibility of flags, so this is a whole lotta nothing, and also, like rock paper scissors, something is always beat by something and beats something, so there will be hundreds of flag beats flag combos, therefore making this too much for ANYONE to read through, never the less use- I mean, you get a SE, there isnt going to ST or CL right in front of you, and nobody in their right mind would ONLY go after the flags that you can beat, because you'll ALWAYS have to avoid/beat someone with a flag "that beats yours"
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Post by Grace F » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:36 pm

GM isn't that effective against those that know how to avoid it. I know lots of people that can kill a GM with any flag no matter what the situation is. This is on most maps where the GM shot is slow but on a map like MissleWars, it's a different case.
flipper_boy wrote:Well if you think about it, most flags can kill any other one.

Like you could do:
L-SW
L-GM
L-WG
L-GENO
L-ST
and so on...
That's right, this makes this 1 big topic :)
warinthestar wrote:gm>bu in most cases the burrow dosent move fast enough to avoid a gm
Ive always thought that on most maps the BU speed is set to the same speed a default tank is. Being as how a normal tank - default speed - can avoid GM pretty easily, the BU should too. Unless it's heading straight for a block in which case it's gone.
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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:41 pm

A Looney Kumquat: I know what you mean by saying that most of it depends on skill, and i agree with you (maybe you could actually read my first post hm?), I made this list to show what flags have some type of advantage over the other.

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Post by Contamination » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:42 pm

Yes dodging gm with bu is pretty easy for me. I just angle myself just right compared to the gm shot, and i'm fine. You just have to get the angle right when your bu'ed

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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:45 pm

Flipper_Boy: You are right too, pretty much any flag can kill any other flag, but again, this is a matter of advantage. For example, L could easily kill ST, but if the ST sneaks up behind the L, the L is probably dead.

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Post by Contamination » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:13 pm

Yeah, I see what you mean. I assume you don't want one that indepth? Everybody knows that 1 flag CAN kill almost everyone, but do you mean just the none obvious ones?

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Post by Quantum Tank » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:33 pm

Say, for example, that somebody was going on an unstoppable rampage with, perhaps, Shock Wave. What flag would you look for to use against that SWer. Thats what I mean by "having an advantage".

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Post by *Boinkage*! » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:00 pm

G vs Everything

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Post by Quantum Tank » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:20 pm

Thats not what i mean... G doesn't give you any extra advantage, so
G is the same as a normal tank in this topic.

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Post by Contamination » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:36 pm

Btw, TH=theif and T=tiny :!:

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Post by Quantum Tank » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:11 pm

Oh yes, thank you.

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Post by SkillDude » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:25 pm

One time on Mofo, there was a person with BU (as usual), and I headed for a flag (possibly GM, A, or TH) to stop him. The BU person closed in and then the coolest thing happened. I got O and squished him because I was such a large tank! (Of course I still got shot).

So this makes another bad flag in the very least of circumstances, useful.

O vs. BU

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